tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post114863202525470313..comments2024-03-27T13:09:26.512+05:30Comments on E=mc^2: My Stand on Reservations IIISujaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-71411533852800384502009-10-01T15:55:29.258+05:302009-10-01T15:55:29.258+05:30IT ISNT QUITE INTRESTING TO FIND OUT HOW THIS BIAS...IT ISNT QUITE INTRESTING TO FIND OUT HOW THIS BIASED SOCIETY FEELS ABOUT MAINAGMNT QUOTA<br />LESS HYPED MANAGEMENT QUOTA [RICH QUOTA] IS WORST<br /><br />Management quota is<br /><br />1) Illegal [donations are illegal acc. to UGC , and for which they can be deaffiliated ].<br />2) It affects more people as private colleges comprise 70% of the total seats.<br />3) It divides rich and poor people [as u say reservations should be provided to poor, here it is reservation for the rich].<br />4) It compromises merit and SC/ST quota acc to u just satisfies last 2 points but its not illegal.<br />www.reservationfacts.blogspot.comindiyouthhttp://www.reservationfacts.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1150432821777760702006-06-16T10:10:00.000+05:302006-06-16T10:10:00.000+05:30Sujai, check out this interview with a social scie...Sujai, check out <A HREF="http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/jun/13inter1.htm" REL="nofollow">this interview</A> with a social scientist. What are your thoughts?randramblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01491243673716435217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1149833767361119302006-06-09T11:46:00.000+05:302006-06-09T11:46:00.000+05:30Though patrix already pointed it out, I still want...Though patrix already pointed it out, I still want to make the point that the below portion is the peak of exaggeration:<BR/><BR/><I>There is no way I can think of where in Indians would agree to rub shoulder with a Dalit in a college, a coffee shop or a working environment in a company other than the reservations imposed by Indian Government.</I>randramblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01491243673716435217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148831707187398032006-05-28T21:25:00.000+05:302006-05-28T21:25:00.000+05:30I have to agree with what anonymous says above and...I have to agree with what <I>anonymous</I> says above and am quite surprised that someone would write an article comparing US affirmative action with India's reservation system without going into the details of how US affirmative action works. As <I>anonymous</I> clearly points out, US affirmative action is intended to select candidates from minorities so as to ensure <B>proportional representation</B>, but <B>without reverse discrimination</B>. What this means is that <B>among candidates with equal qualifications</B>, the one from a minority group is given preference (if the minority group is given preference while being less qualified, as is done with India's quotas, that is reverse discrimination against the more qualified candidate). The Michigan case that Anonymous refers to clearly highlights this: a group of students took the U of M to court saying that they were in fact using quotas instead of selecting among equally qualified candidates.<BR/><BR/>Here is a collection of Washington Post <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/affirm/affirm.htm" REL="nofollow"><BR/>articles on affirmative action</A>. And here is the quote from that page on what affirmative action means:<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>What Is Affirmative Action?<BR/><BR/>Born of the civil rights movement three decades ago, affirmative action calls for minorities and women to be given special consideration in employment, education and contracting decisions.<BR/><BR/>Institutions with affirmative action policies generally set goals and timetables for increased diversity – and use recruitment, set-asides and preference as ways of achieving those goals.<BR/><BR/>In its modern form, affirmative action can call for an admissions officer faced with two similarly qualified applicants to choose the minority over the white, or for a manager to recruit and hire a qualified woman for a job instead of a man. Affirmative action decisions are generally not supposed to be based on quotas, nor are they supposed to give any preference to unqualified candidates. And they are not supposed to harm anyone through "reverse discrimination." <BR/></I><BR/><BR/>The definition of US affirmative action throws light on another aspect of all this that I've found missing from the debate on India's reservations and from the perspectives offered by the (seemingly) self-righteous defenders of India's reservation policies. Why is no one raising the issue of reservation targetted specifically for women? After all, if the aim is to bring forward a class of the population that has long been suppressed, shouldn't women qualify even more? (I would bet that even among the SC/STs and OBCs the women are very much under the heel of their male counterparts.) So why isn't there such thought and rhetoric for reservations specifically aimed at women? (At the IITs, I would wager that there are probably more seats filled by SC/STs than by women, although this seems to be changing for the better over the last dozen years.)<BR/><BR/>I think your explaining away of the right definition of affirmative action (in your response to <I>anonymous</I>) with references to American maturity and "this is what works in India" is mildly amusing at best. Affirmative action is accepted (kicking and screaming at that) by citizens of the US precisely because of the semblance of fairness inherent in its definition. Affirmative action policies have been in effect for <B>less time</B> than India's reservation policies have been (US affirmative action began, at best, in the 70's while India has had reservations since soon after Independence) and there is already clamor for it to be ended. (And in that clamor, you hear the same arguments that can be applied in the Indian context as well: <I>I don't discriminate against XYZ, why should I pay for the sins of my grandparents?</I> as well as <I>affirmative action is being reduced to a quota system in most places and that is a crime</I>.) And to say this is what works in India when nothing else has been tried is quite amazing. The fact that 50+ years after a reservation system has been put into place, we are continuously <I>increasing</I> the amount of reservations is evidence as good as any that the policies of the past have <B>not worked at all</B>. In that context, to be so dismissive of even thinking about an alternative mechanism highlights the problem with both the policy and the present debate.Rajeevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16808551171988237851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148817279445630062006-05-28T17:24:00.000+05:302006-05-28T17:24:00.000+05:30Why can't every political party have 49.5% reserva...Why can't every political party have 49.5% reservations in their highest governing bodies? Why can't we have 49.5% of our Loksabha and Rajyasabha seats reserved for weaker sections of the society? Why can't we have have 49.5% berths in the cabinet reserved for OBCs / SCs / STs? Why can't we have 49.5% representation given to backward classes in our cricket team? Why can't we have 49.5% of consultants and engineers postings reserved for backward classes at Infosys which competes with Accentures and IBMs of this world? Why can't we have 49.5% postings of our scientists at ISRO reserved for backward classes? Why exclude Army / Navy / Air force from reservations?<BR/><BR/>Cerebral Wanderer<BR/>http://cwanderer.wordpress.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148752353160764362006-05-27T23:22:00.000+05:302006-05-27T23:22:00.000+05:30I wrote something related to this subject many day...I wrote something related to this subject many days ago. Here it is<BR/>http://implodingtime.blogspot.com/2006/03/what-reservations-in-graduatepost.htmlShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07279228674728809357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148743034225485642006-05-27T20:47:00.000+05:302006-05-27T20:47:00.000+05:30//quota system with different % for each religion....//quota system with different % for each religion. Someone can correct me if I am wrong about India. //<BR/><BR/>You are WRONG.... And that is not at all a problem.... I understand that you are not from India....<BR/><BR/>There are a lot of people FROM INDIA who cannot understand quota !!!!<BR/><BR/>Quotas are based on something called as Caste.....<BR/><BR/>It is like reserving 5 % of 100 seats in Harvard Medical School (if something like that exists!!) for Black PeopleDoctor Brunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718690205239520878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148733239558644912006-05-27T18:03:00.000+05:302006-05-27T18:03:00.000+05:30Scipio:I have not been evading the questions on re...Scipio:<BR/>I have not been evading the questions on reservations for OBC. <BR/>I am answering my own set of questions and I am putting them on the blog as I proceed with each of them. I need to prepare my answers to my own satisfaction before I post them. Please be patient. Writing blogs is not my day job :)Sujaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148731027115272552006-05-27T17:27:00.000+05:302006-05-27T17:27:00.000+05:30Sujai,Please try to answer the questions imposed a...Sujai,<BR/>Please try to answer the questions imposed against reservation (for OBCs). Your contention that people are not mature enough to warrant an answer from you is flawed.pradmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05103101319540318469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148715161675619812006-05-27T13:02:00.000+05:302006-05-27T13:02:00.000+05:30Dear all:On Affirmative Action. Its not my attempt...Dear all:<BR/>On Affirmative Action. <BR/>Its not my attempt to equate them. They are not the same. They can be compared though- because they have similar task ahead of them- to promote people of certain sections because they were discriminated against. Each country does it differently. We have quotas- because that's the only method that works for Indians. <BR/><BR/>Indians come up with 101 reasons as to why one should not impose reservations. On the other hand, the maturity of US organizations make them implement affirmative action voluntarily. It was not always like that- To enforce a Supreme Court ruling, US had to send Army to one of its states. <BR/><BR/>Imposing certain rules is necessary sometimes. In India, the maturity has not reached the level where in one apologizes for the discrimination of the past, or come up in open to promote backward castes voluntarily. No wonder this is also reflected in the comments.Sujaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148698391999218402006-05-27T08:23:00.000+05:302006-05-27T08:23:00.000+05:30Afirmative Action is not a quota system, but from ...Afirmative Action is not a quota system, but from what I read, the reservation system in India is a quota system with different % for each religion. Someone can correct me if I am wrong about India. <BR/>In the United States that law states that any employer can not discriminate against anyone based on the person's race as per the 14th Amendment of the US constitution ( Equal Protection Clause ). But the main difference is the over extending of the system in India from what I have read.<BR/>In US, no one including the minorities want a quota system. In fact the affirmative action in education has been challenged in a few cases regarding college admissions wherein African Americans got additional weighting to their grades and scores.<BR/>The US Supreme Court has ruled that Affirmative action is sometimes needed and has ruled it unconstitutional in other forms. <BR/> * Gratz v. Bollinger, 2003<BR/> The Supreme Court ruled that the University of Michigan's point-based undergraduate admissions policy that took race into account numerically was too mechanical and unconstitutional. <BR/><BR/>To compare the two systems is not valid because the premise under which they were implemented and the mechanics of the implementation are completely different. Even in the US government jobs, there is no quota system for any minority because it would be legally challenged and perhaps ruled unconstitutional by the courts. <BR/>This is js my $.02.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148678235699641852006-05-27T02:47:00.000+05:302006-05-27T02:47:00.000+05:30Interesting. As u say,if affirmative action is for...Interesting. As u say,if affirmative action is for those against whom crimes have been committed in the past,that guy asking for brahmins to get affirmative action is quite laughable!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148677848903482482006-05-27T02:40:00.000+05:302006-05-27T02:40:00.000+05:30I have to agree with Rohit and Patrix. The reserva...I have to agree with Rohit and Patrix. The reservation system has actually worked to entrench caste divides rather than obliterate them.<BR/><BR/>I don't know what caste most of my friends come from, leave alone colleagues. It's an increasing non issue with the next generation! But when you start giving out political favors in order to strengthen your vote bank- it just serves to divide the country.<BR/><BR/>No one is opposed to assisting the less privileged. But assistance should be based on economic deprivation, not caste divides! And assistance should be enabling, it should work to strengthen meritocracy. We should be thinking about scholarships, financial aid, awareness campaigns- not dumb policies which retard national unification.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148673438404782462006-05-27T01:27:00.000+05:302006-05-27T01:27:00.000+05:30"OBCs should not be given jobs/ admissions because..."OBCs should not be given jobs/ admissions because they are OBCs..."<BR/><BR/>I dont think thats the case in India - but I guess that's how our policy makers interpreted as the stand taken by Indian society at large... they din't like it ofcourse - nobody would - so they decided to right the wrong - morons as they are - they just struck the "not" out of it and thought they had cracked it - their policy now reads<BR/><BR/>"OBCs should be given jobs/ admissions just because they are OBCs..."<BR/><BR/>and, DO NOT even try to compare affirmative action in the US reservations - I have worked with African Americans and what I have noticed is a trememdous sense of pride - no, there is no feeling of entitlement that I see... none... what i do see back in India is a huge sense of entitlement among the backward castes - i mean, what is it...? some kind of a balance sheet being maintained across generations? - its almost like - "dude - your forefathers had accrued huge liabilities when you weren't even born - time to settle things!" <BR/><BR/>comon - provide them education - give them access to all means they need... don't give them freebies! - this entitlement mentality will make people weak - they'll lose their sense of pride...Rohithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01229653550295806854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-1148649138812270432006-05-26T18:42:00.000+05:302006-05-26T18:42:00.000+05:30Why should we only look at US for affirmitive acti...Why should we only look at US for affirmitive action. Why not South Africa? Why not other examples? <BR/><BR/>I agree that what the affirmitive action in US is a very good example. But it would be a fallacy to just look at that.<BR/><BR/>Great post btw. Will nominate again for Desi Pundit.Rajivhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09640124167161335521noreply@blogger.com