tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post2891669880974660539..comments2024-03-18T17:10:39.347+05:30Comments on E=mc^2: Excessive Nationalism and Blurring of Local IdentitiesSujaihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-15370332728770460902019-08-13T11:04:24.946+05:302019-08-13T11:04:24.946+05:30excellent postexcellent postMohammad Raghib Misbahi Azharihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17222939113038055988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-31107818767861427692012-09-16T00:40:53.339+05:302012-09-16T00:40:53.339+05:30excellent postexcellent postAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04732743476092029178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-24274576122968670632012-09-16T00:39:59.067+05:302012-09-16T00:39:59.067+05:30good one good one Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04732743476092029178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-84864383565959209542008-02-13T19:02:00.000+05:302008-02-13T19:02:00.000+05:30I don't know if this is relevant here but of late ...I don't know if this is relevant here but of late i've noticed Kashmiris hailing terrrorists who blew themselves up in a suicide attack or who were killed by the army as martyrs and coming out in huge numbers in support of them. <BR/>Huge processions were taken out in support of dead terrorists who held two people as hostages in a mosque recently and were killed by the army in an an operation to rescue the hostages. Pretty disturbing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-72691069437803469322008-02-13T18:50:00.000+05:302008-02-13T18:50:00.000+05:30Abhi: Am I wrong?Its not about right or wrong. I t...Abhi:<BR/><BR/><I> Am I wrong?</I><BR/><BR/>Its not about right or wrong. I try my best to avoid discussions that have answers ‘right’ or ‘wrong’.<BR/><BR/><I> In an ideal scenario envisaged by you where local identities and national identities are balanced, how do you want people to react if terrorist with local identity kills national leader?</I><BR/><BR/>First, I don’t discuss ideal scenarios. Second, How I would react is different from how others react. I am not proposing a right way to react. <BR/><BR/>Usually, in a country where the law of the land is upheld, the killer will be treated as a killer whether it is a terrorist or a freedom fighter. However, people of Indian subcontinent do not treat terrorists (who kill) same as their freedom fighters (who kill). <BR/> <BR/>In this subcontinent, allegiances to one’s identity- either it is region, language, nation, religion, tribe or caste are held higher than what is considered an act of crime according to the law of the land. People come out onto the roads to protest the rulings of the court just because the convict happens to be one of their own.<BR/><BR/>To such people, one allegiance comes above another – never the rule of the land.<BR/><BR/>And if such people chose nationalism above regionalism, it shows that nationalism has succeeded in getting itself accepted. [I took the example of Tamils because Tamils are notorious for their aggressive and proactive regionalism.]<BR/><BR/><I>How will you react if Telengana naxal kills national leader?</I><BR/><BR/>It’s not how I would react. There are many Telangana people who may come out in support of this killer (if they perceive the motivation for killing the national leader is something to do with the cause of Telangana) [excessive regionalism in play here]. And many the naxalites would support and hail the killer irrespective of what the motive is [‘an ideology stronger than regionalism’ is in play here]. <BR/><BR/><I>How do you want people of Telengana to react in such a scenario?</I><BR/><BR/>How I want the people of Telangana to react is to treat the killer a killer. But I am not sure if people of my region are going to listen to me. [Look at the kind of opposition I get on this blog itself].Sujaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-63481492410305740192008-02-13T17:38:00.000+05:302008-02-13T17:38:00.000+05:30When Rajiv Gandhi was killed in Tamil Nadu, the wh...<I>When Rajiv Gandhi was killed in Tamil Nadu, the whole of Tamil Nadu wept <B>as if he was their own man even though the killers were Tamils</B> (from a foreign nation).</I><BR/><BR/>Sujai: Still I don't understand. In an ideal scenario envisaged by you where local identities and national identities are balanced, how do you want people to react if terrorist with local identity kills national leader? How will you react if Telengana naxal kills national leader? How do you want people of Telengana to react in such a scenario?. <BR/><BR/>I maintain enough of local identities like Language, State, Religion but I am not able to tolerate person of my identity killing some national leader? Am I wrong?Abhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14827630407874287191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-52110665519764431002008-02-13T16:24:00.000+05:302008-02-13T16:24:00.000+05:30SKapur:It is time to see a pattern here Sujai. A l...SKapur:<BR/><BR/><I>It is time to see a pattern here Sujai. A lot of people are not getting the message of a lot of your articles. As articulate as you are, it is time to introspect what is going on.</I><BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I would be worried if people understood and agreed with me right away. <BR/><BR/>[Then I would be a Narendra Modi.]<BR/><BR/>;-)<BR/><BR/>I don't think I am writing to the masses, nor it is for the elite. It is for those who want to spend a little time and reflect. <BR/><BR/>Many commenters don't even read the whole thing and don't reflect on it. They just start typing away an objection. <BR/><BR/>Mull over this.<BR/>Are you on the right path if everyone around agrees with you? <BR/>[Not really]<BR/>Are you on the wrong path if everyone around disagreed with you?<BR/>[Not really]Sujaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-60620085540083754292008-02-13T06:08:00.000+05:302008-02-13T06:08:00.000+05:30Another thing that gets buried in our texts and di...<I> Another thing that gets buried in our texts and discussions is the fact that concept of India as a nation is itself less than 150 years old. </I><BR/><BR/>Nation state itself is not an old phenomenon. Here is the wiki -<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation-state<BR/><B><BR/>Most theories see the nation state as a 19th-century European phenomenon. </B><BR/><BR/><I> Sujai: I don't think you got the message of this article. </I><BR/><BR/>It is time to see a pattern here Sujai. A lot of people are not getting the message of a lot of your articles. As articulate as you are, it is time to introspect what is going on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-66439000495070325602008-02-13T01:33:00.000+05:302008-02-13T01:33:00.000+05:30Abhi:I am a Tamilian. Do you expect me to celebrat...Abhi:<BR/><BR/><I>I am a Tamilian. Do you expect me to celebrate if national leader is killed by Tamilian. Do you expect me to become sad if Tamil terrorist is killed by Indian army?</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think you got the message of this article.<BR/><BR/>This example was given to support my argument that introduction of nationalism as a fervor has succeeded in this country.Sujaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-58529063787534932462008-02-13T00:20:00.000+05:302008-02-13T00:20:00.000+05:30When Rajiv Gandhi was killed in Tamil Nadu, the wh...<I>When Rajiv Gandhi was killed in Tamil Nadu, the whole of Tamil Nadu wept <B>as if he was their own man even though the killers were Tamils</B> (from a foreign nation). </I><BR/><BR/>I am a Tamilian. Do you expect me to celebrate if national leader is killed by Tamilian. Do you expect me to become sad if Tamil terrorist is killed by Indian army?Abhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14827630407874287191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-65545231992341364372008-02-10T01:12:00.000+05:302008-02-10T01:12:00.000+05:30Vivek Behal:May be, its time to write a sequel- o...Vivek Behal:<BR/>May be, its time to write a sequel- only to clear some misconceptions. <BR/><BR/>Many people took my support for 'maintaining of local identities' as a case for 'excessive regionalism' though I decry the latter in the same article. <BR/><BR/>[Also, I never said that one should not maintain a national identity as Indian. I only talked against some negatives of 'excessive nationalism'. ]Sujaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-30686181468670466302008-02-10T01:04:00.000+05:302008-02-10T01:04:00.000+05:30Vivek Behal:I have always maintained that 'excessi...Vivek Behal:<BR/>I have always maintained that 'excessive regionalism' is equally bad. <BR/><BR/>I don't see 'excessive regionalism' to be different or opposite of 'excessive nationalism'. In fact, I club them together.<BR/><BR/>I write:<BR/><BR/><I>Excessive nationalism when not really in use sometimes vents itself as other isms- such as regionalism or communalism. As a corollary, certain groups starting out with parochial and radical regionalisms and communalisms get legitimacies when they portray themselves as nationalists. For example, Shiv sainiks who named themselves after Shivaji (who is considered a patriot under a national banner), first targeted Tamils in Mumbai, displaying their excessive regionalism, and later transformed themselves into a group targeting Muslims, displaying their excessive communalism. They get their legitimacies from many educated Hindus when they champion nationalism. Many Hindus laud Bal Thackeray and his Shiv sainiks when he takes a belligerent stand against Pakistan during a cricket season. Shiv sainiks get their legitimacy as true patriots and they use this slogan to cover up many of their other isms.<BR/><BR/>Certain groups move between these various isms very easily. The defenders of Kannada in Bangalore target Tamils on Cauvery issues, and then vent it out on non-Kannadigas during other incidents showing excessive regionalism, but also portray themselves as the defenders of the nation when protesting against Narayana Murthy over his comments on National Anthem. BJP and its affiliations use this card on a regular basis. They are defenders of national prestige and pride on the national arena while targeting Muslims and Christians in their local constituencies.</I>Sujaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-31912009255992376732008-02-10T00:48:00.000+05:302008-02-10T00:48:00.000+05:30Raj Thackeray has now clearly demonstrated that lo...Raj Thackeray has now clearly demonstrated that local identities can be as dangerous, if not more, as excessive nationalism. No reason to believe that one is better than other as argued in your article. Time to write a sequel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-71688465737302468022008-01-21T08:48:00.000+05:302008-01-21T08:48:00.000+05:30@Somnath....That is an excellent idea. In many wes...@Somnath....<BR/>That is an excellent idea. In many western schools you have to study a second language even if you are in an English speaking country like Britain or U.S. (usually another European language). Not that that in itself is a reason for us to do it. But it does solve some of the problems that we face in terms of desensitivity that new comers to a city has, to the local culture. (and this is happening a lot now a days).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-62882484775002163722008-01-13T10:13:00.000+05:302008-01-13T10:13:00.000+05:30A suggestion.Just like non-Hindi speakers learn th...A suggestion.<BR/>Just like non-Hindi speakers learn three languages in school (usually the mother tongue, English and Hindi), let Hindi-speaking people learn three languages too, viz. Hindi, English and another non-Hindi Indian language.<BR/>This will create more understanding and appreciation of non-Hindi language/culture among the Hindi speaking populace - a key ingredient to a more unified India.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-32267682421321327562007-10-30T21:50:00.000+05:302007-10-30T21:50:00.000+05:30Anon: I am not beholden to a specific Indian bound...Anon: <BR/><BR/>I am not beholden to a specific Indian boundary as a nation - I am well-aware that national boundaries move with time (and I've also seen formation of new states within India), and I do realize that what's India today may not be India 100 years from now. My response was to the statement that India in its present form hasn't been together, which is not true. That doesn't mean my logic dictates USSR should have remained together, or that India's present boundaries are written in stone. And, the boundaries do not have to be <B>exactly the same</B> today as during Ashoka's time to make my point.<BR/>Kapiche amigo? :)<BR/>-ChirkutAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-5102096811980474932007-10-30T16:01:00.000+05:302007-10-30T16:01:00.000+05:30Dear Chirkut, Try to learn the differences between...Dear Chirkut, <BR/><BR/>Try to learn the differences between a nation and an empire. What Ashoka had was an empire, not a nation. Empires have subordinate rulers and states. Even the map in the Wiki link does not include all of present day India. <BR/><BR/>Based on your logic, USSR had no reason to breakup. Most of it was under Mongol Empire at one time and Russian empire another time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-81184048988279637162007-10-30T05:10:00.000+05:302007-10-30T05:10:00.000+05:30Another thing that gets buried in our texts and di...<I>Another thing that gets buried in our texts and discussions is the fact that concept of India as a nation is itself less than 150 years old. India in its present form had never been together, both culturally and politically before 1947.</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka#Rise_to_power" REL="nofollow">Simply not true</A>. Unless you think that King Ashok ruled only 150 years ago instead of from 273 BC to 232 BC.<BR/><BR/>-ChirkutAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-46084920781979288402007-10-29T18:20:00.000+05:302007-10-29T18:20:00.000+05:30I really liked ur post, thanks for sharing. Keep w...I really liked ur post, thanks for sharing. Keep writing. I discovered a good site for bloggers check out this www.blogadda.com, you can submit your blog there, you can get more auidence.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00110644071112006524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-73257166403039639932007-10-29T14:54:00.000+05:302007-10-29T14:54:00.000+05:30Well written Sujai. It still amazes me to see some...Well written Sujai. It still amazes me to see some people pushing Hindi is a "national language" myth. All the major languages of India are official languages - whether it is Hindi or Malayalam or something else. <BR/><BR/>I also see a streak of fascism in people who equate patriotism with a language or a particular religion. In case of Hindu right wingers, they want to use Hindi (and the dead Sanskrit language to some extent) to "unite" people. Damn all those local and regional cultures and languages in the name of unity. <BR/><BR/>As Darpan said, excess regionalism is also bad and has no place in a healthy democracy.<BR/><BR/>Another thing that gets buried in our texts and discussions is the fact that concept of India as a nation is itself less than 150 years old. India in its present form had never been together, both culturally and politically before 1947. This is an unsettling idea to nationalists who do everything to avoid debate on this issue. Even the mutiny of 1857 is passed of as first freedom struggle when in fact there were many mutinies before 1857, and even 1857 mutiny was largely local or regional in scope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-76386765097158940012007-10-29T14:44:00.000+05:302007-10-29T14:44:00.000+05:30leaving one more comment so i can follow this up o...leaving one more comment so i can follow this up on mailanwinjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352060909356805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-27009441998783346542007-10-29T14:42:00.000+05:302007-10-29T14:42:00.000+05:30I say this is well written. Some people just dont ...I say this is well written. Some people just dont understand that appreciating all cultures and languages and states within India is always good towards being "One" India. It is quite logical because nobody will get into fights or baseless arguments when they are not pressurised into being first known as an Indian and then their state or culture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-444016325432225312007-10-29T02:24:00.000+05:302007-10-29T02:24:00.000+05:30Sujai at it again - stirring the mud with half-bak...Sujai at it again - stirring the mud with half-baked logic to prove his point? ;)<BR/><BR/>The movie 'chak de india' was not about losing one's state identity, but to recognize the national identity. That doesn't mean one forgets one's state/local identity, but simply that in a national team, it is in the best interests of the team to put the local identity on the back-burner and recognize oneself as an Indian <I>first</I> and a local second.<BR/>The misinformation and twisting continues here.<BR/>-ChirkutAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-11900224323744189392007-10-28T21:32:00.000+05:302007-10-28T21:32:00.000+05:30Global Oneness is the name of the game. Being loca...Global Oneness is the name of the game. Being local and small makes sense in a lot of things and being one global community (I am not talking about just national oneness) makes sense for the other things.<BR/><BR/>Some of these videos might calm you down - http://www.globalonenessproject.org/<BR/><BR/>The idea of oneness is not new. For thousands of years it's been a basic part of human consciousness, taking countless forms in the world's spiritual, religious, artistic, and cultural traditions. Indigenous lifeways, myths showing the interconnectedness of all things, intricate philosophical systems, literature, and art are just a few of the ways we've sought to understand and express oneness. For the most part, however, these different expressions have been isolated from one another by geography, language, and time, or restricted to an intellectual or spiritual elite.<BR/><BR/>In contrast, today we experience global interdependence with a unique level of clarity and urgency. In natural sciences like biology, physics, and mathematics; in technology, economics, and ecology; and in spiritual, cultural, and social movements across the planet new perspectives on oneness are emerging with breathtaking beauty and transformational power.<BR/><BR/>Right now, for example, as you read these words on the World Wide Web, you are participating in oneness in a way that was inconceivable just a few decades ago. In this moment you are connected to the millions of Web-users all over the world -- a global network of people exchanging ideas and finding common ground across different histories, nationalities, languages, interests, and lives.Buddhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001866169072136883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825668.post-33236692181025962232007-10-28T19:18:00.000+05:302007-10-28T19:18:00.000+05:30Abhilash Shastry:People like you waste my time.I d...Abhilash Shastry:<BR/>People like you waste my time.<BR/><BR/>I did not refer to OFFICIAL LANGUAGE. I was referring to NATIONAL LANGUAGE.<BR/><BR/>We have few national symbols- such as national emblem, national flag, etc. But we do NOT have a NATIONAL LANGUAGE. <BR/><BR/>The center has two OFFICIAL languages - Hindi and English.<BR/><BR/>Each regional centers have two OFFICIAL languages too - their own regional language, such as Kannada, and English.<BR/><BR/>Hope you can appreciate the difference.Sujaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539694685428659940noreply@blogger.com