Sunday, September 17, 2006

Adolf Hitler and Indians II

[I posted my article Adolf Hitler and Indians at Based on various comments I received I thought I should explain myself for what is seen as a far-fetched opinion.]

My hypothesis that there is a correlation between the groups carrying the stated sentiments may appear far-fetched only because no study or survey has been done to check this. I have expressed my opinion, which comes from my experiences talking to and interacting with different people on these topics, that there is an underlying belief system which is common to all these groups- a sense of supremacy, fear of other kinds of people, and lack of tolerance towards opposing views. People who harbor these beliefs do not find it difficult to admire a person like Adolf Hitler- consciously or subconsciously. Compounded with the problem of lack of formal education of WWII crimes, it becomes even easier to admire him. While it is very natural for many in India to harbor anti-Muslim feelings, anti-reservation sentiments, and admiration for Hitler (which are seemingly innocuous and disparate), I find that such feelings are based on certain innate prejudices (those that I listed above) which when harbored for too long can become extremely dangerous- as seen from pre-Nazi or any pre-fascist movement. Those who harbor these sentiments are not necessarily evil- but without their conscious knowledge they are feeding into those elements that could be evil (in future). Not knowing the consequences of harboring, nurturing and promoting certain prejudices could (sometimes) lead to catastrophic consequences, as seen from history.

Most fascist movements started with a growing sense of nationalism, a sense of pride in what they or what their ancestors were, an effort to consolidate religion or culture, with sporadic skirmishes with other kind of people who do not conform, a need to prove one’s patriotism by following certain agreed symbols, and later on fueled by the elite who define the whole movement through philosophical texts giving the needed legitimacy. There are signs of all these in the present India, and were there for quite some time now. What is new and therefore looks ominous is the convergence of other necessary ingredients to make this fascist movement a reality- a growing sense of supremacy amongst middle class and academia that is buoyed by booming economy; the urgent need to identify oneself closer to pristine religion because of rapid urbanization and globalization; the growing lack of tolerance towards opposing views; the all pervading instrument of media which airs its opinions to masses; reinterpreting history to suit the present needs of supremacy; redefining and reinventing ancient texts to position Vedic Sciences as an alternative to modern science, etc. At present, most of these sentiments look very confined to certain organizations like VHP, BJP, Bajrang Dal and its associated groups. Actually, most Hindus do not subscribe to the activities of VHP, BJP, Bajrang Dal, etc. They may not necessarily be aligning themselves with these groups either, but some of them are definitely sympathetic. By condoning their acts, or by staying silent on their acts, or by being ambivalent about them, we as Hindus are allowing certain prejudices to grow. It will catch up in a generation or two.

I believe that it is the Dawn of Indian Hindu Fascism because I see the seeds for such convergence happening right now. I could be completely wrong. That would be good for all of us. If it is indeed right, is it not better to take right precautions instead of brushing it aside?

All I am saying is- 'Hey! Wake up India! Don't harbor these sentiments and fuel them thinking it will be harmless. Such seemingly harmless sentiments in the past have led to great tragedies. If you do not curb them now, in another generation or so, we will have bloody war on this land unlike anything we have seen in our history!' What did we learn from Partition of India? I am not really sure. The only man who predicted how tragic the surgery would be, we shot him right away. Will people of India react to certain event as a monolithic rock? Yes, they can. The Indian masses can suddenly ignore all the apparent differences and amalgamate into distinct entity to take on another entity. Our history showcases many instances of such sudden joining of forces that resulted in blood baths. The forces that unite them will be the slowly brewing set of prejudices.

In a democracy, such prejudices and hatred cannot be curbed with force. Instead, it is the responsibility of the people itself to learn from history, teach kids of history and install mature institutions to ensure continuity of its people/nation/culture/religion/etc. Onus of learning and accommodating to set a precedent, unfortunately, always resides on the majority. Forcing and shoving certain ideals onto minorities will only ensure that they hate us forever. Glorification of the past while deliberately avoiding learning from our mistakes is one way to go about it. How about cross-examining our actions and belief systems of the past that led to major flashpoints?

I am not comparing anyone or any group to Adolf Hitler or his Nazi Party. Correlation is not comparison. In India, admiration for Adolf Hitler is not considered bad (and that’s why people admire him), and therefore my hypothesis cannot be assumed to be an attempt to show someone in bad light. It is not an attempt to insult or demonize someone either. I think it is a sincere attempt to ask some hard questions for us to check if indeed such correlation exists. If so, what dangers do we see in continuing to harbor such sentiments? Dismissing it right away will not allow us to even think about it. At the end it is just a hypothesis – and any statistics or survey can dispel it. My intention was to elicit introspection from Indians- not another tirade of defense and excuses. When a nation does not question itself or criticize itself by learning from history, it tends to brush off all the signs of danger and repeat similar mistakes of the past.

I thought Hitler was necessary in this discussion because that’s what Germans did- they harbored and condoned each of Nazi actions, and contributed to WWII and Holocaust by being silent. The seeds for tragedies were sown many years before, through harboring such seemingly innocuous sentiments by ordinary and normal people - starting from creating new philosophies, nurturing growing nationalism, curbing opposing views and thoughts, accusing certain people for all evils, etc. Who in post-WWI Germany would have predicted such a calamity would befall on whole world? Who in pre-Nazi Germany believed they would actually be running a concentration camp? There were signs everywhere but nobody chose to read them. Those who did were first ignored and then brushed aside and later on were shot dead or asked to leave.

I could have easily taken any other example- that of Stalin, that of Mussolini, that of Mao, that of Khmer Rouge, or of the recent genocide in Rwanda. Hitler, his Nazi regime, the Holocaust and WWII represent the best examples- they are gigantic in proportion and also most well-known.

I agree that a blogger has to be responsible. Having said that- should I refrain from writing my thoughts just because it will put us Indians in the negative light? Questioning one’s prejudices helps. And while we are questioning ourselves against all yard-sticks, we need not be worried as to how others think of us. Questioning ourselves is only the first step towards building a mature state. Just ponder over this- where do you find the biggest critics of US? And where do we find the biggest critics of Britain? (My answers are- in US and Britain respectively).


  1. Forget about Adolf Hitler, most Indians are not even aware that the PM is Manmohan and not Sonia Gandhi.

  2. What's new about this? You just repeated the whole thing. Looks like you simply brushed aside my evaluation of your hypothesis without a counterargument. I take it that you do not have a critical counterargument and therefore, assume that your hypothesis has no intellectual/social value. On the other hand, I do appreciate that you atleast broached on a topic that may have importance to our beloved country. Your courage to ask some tough questions should be commended but I'm afraid, I've to stop here.

    "Just ponder over this- where do you find the biggest critics of US? And where do we find the biggest critics of Britain? (My answers are- in US and Britain respectively)."

    Wrong. The biggest critic of the US and Britain are the Ummah - the Islamic world. Each and every Muslim living on Earth is the biggest critic of Britain and the US and there are 1.5 billion of them. They burn US/British flags, burn effigies of George Bush/Tony Blair, bomb US embassies, kidnap US/British journalists and kill some of them etc. This is not to say there are no big critics of US/Britain in US/Britain respectively but they dont burn flags, burn effigies, threaten to kill anyone, behead or blow people up. Just look at what's happening throughout the Islamic world after the Pope's remarks. Some Islamic leaders even alleged that the Pope's remarks were a conspiracy of the West (meaning US and Britain)! Even among the socalled moderates, resentment against US/Britain is very high. Just talk to one of your Muslim friends about US/Britain. Therefore, your contention that the biggest critics of the US and Britain are in the US and Britain respectively is invalid. The correct answer (biggest critics of the US/Britain both with the sword and the pen) is the Ummah - the Islamic world i.e., Iran and Iraq (ranked 1), Palestine (ranked 2), Lebanon (ranked 3), Egypt, Syria, Jordan (ranked 4), Pakistan, Afghanistan (ranked 5) and the rest of the Crescent. In addition, there are Cuba, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, some of the African countries, Russia, China and hold on, INDIA. Even I'm a hard critic of evil US foreign policy :p

    PS: Some of the biggest critics of India are found in India - some examples, Arundhati Roy, Medha Patkar, Praful Bidwai, Shahi Imam Bukhari, Sujai K.

  3. Atlantean:
    I have NOT brushed aside your criticism. Its stands and is valid. It gives readers another perspective. I don't have to nitpick each of your statements and refute them. That would only go into a long chain of refutation and counter-refutation. I understand that a debate can go on forever; I also do not think I have to refute everything you say- unless there is a glaring idea that I need to explain myself. But anyway, I will come back to it, and then provide my answers.

    There can be two sides to a story, and I am sure there will be many readers who will agree with you, while a miniscule few may tend to agree with some of my conjectures.

    There are no facts, only interpretations- Friedrich Nietzsche

    For example, you think that the biggest critics of US and Britain are in Ummah. That does not mean I agree with you. Because you interpret criticism to be a combination of pen and sword. I don't. There are various forms of showing one's opposing views- criticism, protest, strike, revolt, rebel, attack, kidnap, rape and terrorize.

    You seem to club them all into one.

    I just accept it as your way of defining criticism. I will hold onto my definition which works for me. I don't have to necessarily make you follow my definition.

    Most of the countries that you talk about in Middle East, etc, criticize US foreign policy and not necessarily its domestic policy. Who criticizes US domestic policy and as well its foreign policy? And how do US and Britain react to criticism of their foreign policy by another country? Do they ban it or publish it?

    I am more interested in the above questions compared to who protests, revolts and burns the effigies. That does not mean you have to subscribe to it.

    I don't think I know everything that I can state right away "Wrong" to your assertion that it is Ummah which is the biggest critic. I know enough but again I have been proved wrong so many times that I do not assert myself with such confidence when it come to such debatable issues.

    I am not young enough to know everything- Oscar Wilde

  4. Your post reminds me of what the great intellectual Krishnmurthy said"Beware of belief and Dogma". When they are pursued blindly(dogma), catastrophy results.

  5. After I started studying the facts of WWII and Hitler's talks and actions regarding peoples of color, I was forced to see that many of his actions actually fought worldwide racism, and his private conversations reveal that he apparently felt it was the job of the superior races.

    Actually, Hitler was not a racist in the official definition of the term.

    In this short essay I will quote from an actual expert from Otto Wagener's "Memories of a Confidant"-- recordings of his conversations with Hitler during the 1920's) (before rise to power.) where we see Hitler's secret intentions for all the innocent races not belonging to Nordic stock. While revealing his future plans for the various races of the earth and the future relationship of Aryan's to nature and all it's natural, that is organic creations, when we do this we will all develop a genuine insight into Hitler's hidden worldview considering other races which he felt were non-threatening to his national people . In this unpublicized quote among many others, Wagener is commenting to Hitler on his knowledge of Arab views toward the Germans, and specifically the Arab Emissary, who revealed such information when he visited Hitler in Germany. He said that the Arabs see the Germans as hero's and future liberators from Jewish rule and British enslavement. They applauded the Germans for standing up to the British arrogance and their view of the Jewish influence which was not good since Zionism was a nationalist, militarist, socialist, culturally revolutionary, political, organization with an agenda all of their own; they were going to re-colonize Palestine if they had to sacrifice some Arab blood, the line of Ishmael--it was no problem. Regaining lost lands is a principle need of a nationalistic cultural revolution. So this spirit, along with the firm backing of England they sought to grab the advantage of superior military and financial backing and thus were superior to any Palestinian. Hitler was very fond of the Arabs as to his knowledge of their superior advances in the middle ages when the fallen Europeans were being stupefied by Christianity and did not value their grates minds, meanwhile the Moslem's appreciated the great Aryan minds. He also knew that the Moslem's got much of their academic knowledge of science from India. Therefore he figured if half the existent Aryan-Anglo-Saxon race is so deceived and do not want change, he would be better off making Friends with other races such as Asians of the most advanced types, Arabs, Africans and eventually Indians, and his policies proved his wish of good will with all the peaceful and honorable races. This may sound too fantastic, but lets let the facts speak for themselves:

    "Memories of a Confident": 1920's disciple Wagener's record of Hitler's secret mission: As Wagner has just remarked on the Arab Emissary visit to Germany and their support for the German cause Hitler remarked: "But the Semites seem to recognize their racial compatriots. Furthermore it seems to me that they know more about race than Europe does. The whitewashed good manners of our continent have seen to it that everything that might contribute to lucidity and truth was overlaid with a uniform Grey. Let us not lose sight of the Arab League. We Germans have gotten in the habit of looking for friends only in Europe--if possible among people of the same race. Perhaps this is a mistake. Perhaps it is much easier to find Friends among the other races.. If the Arabs know that we-that is a "NEW GERMANY" can offer them understanding, support, and firm backing in their own struggles for freedom , and that we consider them competent to enter alliances--welcome them, in fact---such a realization might have significant repercussions in our position with Europe as well. Furthermore an alliance of interests between Germany and the Arabic-Semitic race might also have far reaching significance for our relations with the millions of African, Indian, and yellow peoples. Purport: (for they are all pure and racially conscious) continued: "A Whole New perspective is opening up for me!" Wagener: but then Hitler rubbed his hands across his eyes and continued in a calmer voice: "I'll have to sleep on it. It seems to me that "PRACTICAL POLITICS TIES TO ENGLAND", It will have to be a LONG-TERM GOAL" ( that is the final restoration of friendly relations with Nobel non-Aryan races and Aryan sub-races.) continuing in the recording of Memories of a Confident, Wagener warns Hitler that "England would not sit idly by while we begin to sympathize with the various nations that England has always considers it's vassals." ( then Wagner continues by writing that an old war comrade had informed him that an English Colonel worked for the British intelligence was coming to Munich and wanted to talk to him about the ideals and goals of the NSDAP): Wagener notes: When I filled Hitler in on this visit, he said,: "Now England is taking interest in us. ( interesting that Hitler at the time does not fear the millions of Africans, Indians, Semites, and Yellow peoples, but when concerning the cunning British Devil bent on world domination and subjugation Hitler advised: Lets be cautious---I have no personal knowledge of the British. What I've read and herd about them is not altogether favorable. I am sure of only one thing, they are a practical people, and exclusively pre-occupied with they're own advantage and their own security." Then Hitler remarks on a typical British characteristic, (one which he earlier stated will not be the foreign worldview concerning relations and Geo-political-strategy of the "NEW GERMANY") "Since they think only of themselves when they act and speak, a certain amount of INSINCERITY has become second nature to them". So originally, Hitler wanted to convert the British and make them the great international race he knew they were capable of being, but he also wanted certain elements within their character eliminated, such as their conception of non-Brits and their disregard for nature. Hitler wanted to be sincere with his racial compatriots as well as with other races-- Nobel aware Aryan and non-Aryans--that understood his mission and had been unjustly treated by this egotistic material and financial force of the Anglo-Saxon-Christian-Sadducceic order of the Capitalist West. Eventually, after all the strenuous wars were done with negative elements within the white race, Hitler wanted the colored races to love the Aryans as benevolent, merciful, knowledgeable Gods of good luck and illumination. Every New-Ager knows that the white race is supposed to radiate and uplift the spiritual colors of the various races: white, red, yellow, brownish-red, and noble black. This is right, for the real spiritual and physical energies within the white race should be channeled to vibrate the white light which is made of the color spectrum. We are supposed to activate the light in every animated being including the earth. Hitler wanted a "New Europe" that was not jealous of the spiritual maintenance of the other races as the Christians, but a Europe that appreciated the beauty and value of every Nobel, honest, forms and looked to uplift the consciousness of every level of life striving up wards in evolution from the infinitely large as well as the infinitely small which includes other races, animals, and all other forms of life. Thus he wanted each race to improve itself and rid itself of threatening elements, and That is why he personally opposed the domination of the world by the white race, he wanted each race to rule their nature given living space. That say's Hitler's real intentions to other races, species, and life-forms. All genuine accounts of Hitler's conversations reflect a similar Messianic spirit.

    Seek, and you will find!

  6. Being an artist yourself, you may well understand bout the sentiments of common people. Artists seem to be careful. What MF Hussain did by painting nude mother india or indian goddesses may harm common people and in particular common muslim. No matter how much he progressed in his career, he still behaved like some illeterate misguided fanatic in one way or another by insulting someone's religious feelings. Maybe he will not be affected by doing this but a common a poor muslim is most likely to bear the brunt if this incident catches fire and spread. You must definitely not support any such gesture which may have any future repercussions against a sect, a common man and humanity above all. MF Hussain certainly forgot that Bharat Mata belongs to him as well since he is also an indian. We must not degrade our own nationality just by pretending that we are modern.

  7. Sujal BE A MAN. I dont think coward like you can save our country or even you family from .... Stop writing about hitler and Hinduism, start learn real history--not manipulated history written by western world in english.

  8. first, the indian soldiers who followed the allied powers are just greedy bastards.( how much u got from isi and cia for writing this imaginative, articulate article)
    second your views are manipulated history, far from true history. some western countries got jealous on Hitler and Germans growth, fearing the loss of market shares, they declared war on Germany. also to convince their people those nations created a manipulated history and created a hate in their people towards Hitler.
    Hitler was a man true to his lover. Hitler was a man true to his Germany people.Hitler was a man true to his nation.
    now in India people having violence origins are enjoying all the offers offered by government.
    but hard working middle class people gets nothing from government.while middle class people toils and earn. government steals away their wealth by various taxes and through corruption. for middle class people, they have to fight inflation but for the so called poor, government subsidizes every thing including food.

    Hitler is a symbol of nationalism. He is a great visionary who can take people of a nation towards growth. now a days we see corruptions in lakhs of crore. if hitler is there, he would have executed all these corrupt politicians. under hitlers rule, he executed all criminals and rowdies. he also sterlized them.
    donkeys cannot understand the smell of fragrance. only people with good knowledge and right thinking can understand hitler.
    Hitler is not a man nomore. He is a symbol of nationalism. He is a symbol of patriotism and brotherhood. He is a symbol of great governence and righteousness in state. Hail hitler. Long live Hitlers fame.


Dear Commenters:
Please identify yourself. At least use a pseudonym. Otherwise there will be too many *Anonymous*; making it confusing.

Do NOT write personal information or whereabouts about the author or other commenters. You are free to write about yourself. Please do not use abusive language. Do not indulge in personal attacks and insults.

Write comments which are relevant and make sense so that the debate remains healthy.