Thursday, October 18, 2007

Telangana II

Here, I deal with some of the comments from my previous blog - Telangana - A New State.

I just don’t understand why so many people are opposed to a separate Telangana. We didn’t see the same kind of opposition when Jharkhand, Chattisgarh and Uttarkhand were created.

It is quite clear that there are many supporters for separate Telangana in Telangana. TRS, a political party, that came in to cash in on this sentiment with a single slogan of getting a separate Telangana has swept the polls in Telangana. This clearly indicates that people of Telangana overwhelmingly support a separate Telangana.

So, who are these voices who are opposed to it? And why are they opposed to formation of Telangana? Here I look at some of the excuses given by some of the detractors.

1. Andhra people will take away all their investments from Telangana.

Some time ago, the real estate prices crashed in Hyderabad when it became imminent that Telangana would be formed. Lot of people speculated that many Andhra people will move out of Hyderabad. Now, that the state has not formed yet and since so many new projects keep coming into Hyderabad, the prices have picked up again.

There are lots of people who believe that 'Andhra people moving out of Hyderabad' will be bad for Hyderabad. Therefore, they believe that Telangana should not be formed. This reasoning is quite ridiculous. First, no decision on formation of a new state should be based on fears that certain section of people will move out. Second, there are many examples from history which suggest that Andhra people could continue living in Hyderabad even after separation of Telangana. There are many Tamils still living in Mumbai even after Shiv Sainiks took on an agenda to get rid of them. When many riots broke out in Bangalore in a drive to kick out Tamils, the Tamils stood ground and continue living there. Many similar incidents took place in India. That has not changed the demographics much. Such incidents were sporadic and confined to small time frames only to further an agenda. It is unlikely that Andhra people will move out of Hyderabad just because the city goes to Telangana.

There is a ridiculous speculation that the new state would not be friendly to new investments. One guy writes:

…If we have a separate state, then projects like Fab city, Hyderabad Airport, Sky bus, Hyderabad Metro, ORR, and numerous projects will halt and eventually disappear from the state only for the reason that government will not support it after the new state.

The newly formed states in India are known for their aggressive policies to attract more investments and start new projects. Take Uttarkhand for example. They have already invited many MNCs to setup factories in their state giving them sops and tax benefits. Their economy is on an unprecedented growth.

2. Muslims will dominate if Telangana becomes a State.

This issue is never discussed in public forums but is given as an excuse by many detractors in private discussions. If you talk to these detractors, it’s hard to miss the Muslim angle in their story. There is a sense of fear amongst Hindus that in the new Telangana state Muslims will wield more power – and they don’t want that

Similar argument was used long ago when Bengal was partitioned by British. Many Hindus opposed it because they believed that new East Bengal would be completely dominated by Muslims. While that reason is quite abominable and has bigotry as its core ideal, it was still a valid reason in the sense that the new state had a Muslim-majority population.

For a minute let's consider and accept this abominable excuse as an acceptable reason and apply it in case of separate Telangana. The percentage of Muslims to Hindus in Telangana marginally improves even in a separate state of Telangana without any bearing whatsoever to affect the power equations. The Muslims will continue to be a minority as ever. Hindus will continue to dominate in the whole of Telangana as they have always done. They will continue to vote the same kind of people to power from each of their constituency as they have done all these years.

I could imagine a change in power equations if there was reconstitution of the constituencies to benefit certain communities. But if we were to stick to the same constituencies in the new state, they would continue to yield the same results whether they are part of Telangana or Andhra Pradesh or Madras Presidency.

[Of all these excuses, I hate this the most. First, this reason is quite revolting to be used as an excuse. Second, it is not even valid.]

The Muslim angle continues. For many people, the fact that Telangana was under Nizam is a disgrace. The fact that Telangana people did not revolt against Nizam only shows their good-for-nothing capability establishing their inferiority.

One guy writes [emphasis mine]:

I would have loved to see so called "Telangana Tigers" Freeing themselves from Nizam Rule without the intervention of Indian Army. What were these telangana people doing when Nizam was ruling them. Who was nizam? and where did nizam come from? Telangana people allowed nizam who was not even a part of this country to rule them and now they are fighting for seperate state. You should never be given a seperate state for you preferred the slavery of Nizams and you are talking about cultural aspects.

Look at the tone of above commenter in describing the people of Telangana. We do not deserve a separate state because we endured Nizam?

3. Hyderabad will become a Union Territory; away from both Andhra and Telangana.

There was a rumor floating around suggesting that Hyderabad will be made a Union Territory and hence both Telangana and Andhra people will lose the city, making the separation a zero-sum game for everyone. This was indeed a good rumor benefiting the detractors who started to tell everyone to oppose separation. The importance of Hyderabad cannot be missed in this opposition to Telangana formation. In fact, it could be the foremost reason why rest of Andhra Pradesh does not want to grant Telangana people a separate statehood. In the case of Chattisgarh, Jharkhand or Uttarkhand, important cities were not lost to these newly created states - and that's why we saw little resistance. However, in case of Telangana, Hyderabad plays a vital role. The newly formed state is about to bag the crown jewel, and hence we see a bitter opposition to stop that separation.

One guy writes:

Hyderabad is on developement road if you break the state its absolutely problem for both of us.

They are hell bent on not giving up Telangana. You start to wonder why there is such great opposition. Is there an ulterior motive? Even Winston Churchill never wanted to part with India. He wanted India to be there as a crown jewel feeding his nation with raw material. Here, Hyderabad is access to capital, opportunity and investment, and they don’t want to let go.

And some people come with sillier excuses such as:

4. Andhra people are hardworking, enterprising and well-educated.

One Telangana guy writes [emphasis mine]:

We are best at what we do if we put our mind to it and let's for god's sake not separate from our telugu brethern by hiding our laggard nature.

To oppose the separation citing such silly reasons is actually quite dangerous. Should we ally with the efficient German people and merge with them just because they are hard-working, enterprising and well-educated?

Many Telangana people believe that Andhra people are better than them because 'Andhra people are hardworking, enterprising and well-educated'. They think that people of Telangana are lazy, job-shirkers and usually less hardworking. This they believe was the main reason why Andhra people seem to do so well. And they see no reason why Telangana should be rewarded (or punished) with a new state just because one is lazy.

One guy writes:

Let us think telangana is formed and according to your dreams you now have huge req. in state for jobs.. Are you going to recruit educted guys of telangana or non-educated guys ??

If your answer is "educated" guys then that what happened when AP state was formed.Andhra guys who are educated got the job.

This is the exact mindset we are trying to counter here. In addition to mere qualifications endowed by educational degrees, we want local people to prosper by controlling the competition from people of well-to-do regions. That’s why we create different administrative regions and states in the first place.

For many reasons separation really helps. By restricting certain jobs in a State to its own people, thereby making people from other states ineligible, we pave the way for benefiting people of that state, providing them with more opportunities. If we did not have such constituents (as states) and if whole of India was one single state where anyone from any place could get any government post anywhere, we can easily imagine a situation wherein certain well-to-do region people getting all employment opportunities sidelining people from backward regions forever (like Orissa) thus perpetuating and widening that gap forever. The people of such backward regions will never get jobs in their own lands and therefore will not prosper. To avoid such disparities existing between two kinds of people, we have different constituent units. Therefore, separation comes as an important tool and it definitely helps to put certain homogenous groups- social, economic, cultural, linguistic, religious, whatever be the basis for an identity or common grief, into units called states so that they can provide opportunities indigenously.

Did not Telugu people fight for a separate state citing the same reasons to form Andhra Pradesh out of Madras Presidency?

If for certain reason we see two lopsided units in the same state, and for a prolonged period certain people are getting sidelined consistently, one has to wake up and take a second look to see if that state needs to be divided. And that time has come for people of Telangana.

5. Andhra Telugu is superior – everyone should become like them.

There are many Telangana people who are very ashamed to speak Telangana. They see it as lowly language something more suitable for a coolie, a worker or a sweeper. To be sophisticated and chic and to reach higher echelons of society, one has to speak Andhra Telugu.

This feeling goes around a lot, mostly in Telangana. And there is a reason for that. Take a government organization like BHEL, ECIL, or any university in Telangana. You will find most high positions occupied by people from Andhra, while people of Telangana comprise low positions. Therefore, there is a tendency to attach Andhra people’s accent and dialect with superiority since it goes with those high positions. Even the Telugu Movies perpetuate the same image- the goon, the villain and the comedian speak Telangana while invariably all protagonists (the 'Hero' and 'Heroine'), even if the setting is in Telangana region, speak Andhra Telugu. This notion is palpable in all those environments where Telangana people and Andhra people rub shoulders- there is a continuous image being beamed which suggest that Telangana is inferior. So some of these middle class Telangana people who want to get rid of this ignominy inculcate a sense of shame into their kids for being Telangana, and they do their best to get rid of Telangana tag by teaching their kids to speak Andhra Telugu. You will see some middle class Telangana people who aspire to grow ranks in society speaking Andhra Telugu.

In all social circles, to speak Telangana is considered lowly and to speak Andhra Telugu is considered sophisticated. This feeling is not only prevalent amongst Andhra people, but is also carried out by many Telangana people who look down upon their dialect as inferior.

One Telangana guy writes about Andhras:

but take inspiration from them in is it that is good about them(they speak telugu which is less arabic, turkish influenced) and at the same time preserve and nourish our own dialect. Jai Telugu!

On the issue of Andhras ridiculing Telangana dialect, one guy writes [emphasis mine]:

You will be ridiculed when you deserve to be ridiculed. Nobody will praise you when you are in a position to be ridiculed. Did'nt the Britishers and Mughals ridicule the entire nation and why did they ridicule because you yourselves put yourself in a situation to be ridiculed.

6. We will lose our identity as Telugu people

Another common refrain is that we will lose our identity as Telugu people. They see the State as one single family and breaking it is like breaking asunder a nice little family- which, according to them, is a bad thing to do – just watch any Telugu movie – they all portray a son moving out of the home as a very bad thing to do. One guy writes:

This is my land n I dont like leaders breaking my ANDHRA PRADESH for there own cause . Even now we r recognosied as MADRASI by others,by breaking the state we will not have recognition also.

What this guy doesn’t realize is that the reason why we formed Andhra Pradesh out of Madras Presidency is also why Telangana people want a separate state. The rationale that was applied back then is somehow not applied now. There is a gimmick to rally people to unify under one language to oppose this separation.

One guy writes [translation mine]:

Telugu mundhu [Telugu first]. Atharavathe edhaina [Everything else is secondary]. Person who started this blog should know that Telugus have come under one banner after thousands of years. Let's not waste this opportunity by separating ourselves into distinct identities by exaggerating them.

He believes that TELUGU as a language comes above everything else and that reason is enough to keep this a single state. Don’t we have many states speaking Hindi? Should they all be under one banner and therefore under one state? Don’t we have many states speaking Bengali, should we bring back Bangladesh into West Bengal to keep them under one banner? The number of people who speak Telugu is more than 70 million. There are many countries which are one-tenth of that size in Europe maintaining their identity. There are many countries which speak English as their main language – they continue to maintain their identities in spite of different national flags.

Conclusion:

I notice a sense of exasperation from these detractors. They tell us not to break the region as if it is a crime. They equate separation of state to creation of a new nation – and this analogy is quite ridiculous. We will continue to evolve as a nation and that would mean we will have new reorganizations of all kinds to suit the changing aspirations of its people. There are many detractors in this country who oppose all kinds of change. They are just opposed to any change of any kind. One reason is fear of change and fear of unknown. The other reason is arrogance that the present status is really the best. They just cannot comprehend why certain people would demand a separate identity or a state.

Then there are vested interests who do not want to part with Hyderabad to Telangana people and hence they posit all kinds of arguments which do not stand ground. They cite many frivolous and some ridiculous reasons to oppose this separation. They say- lets stay united, as if it is a family. They say- Telangana will suffer more, as if it got a chance to improve in the first place. They resort to ridiculing Telangana people while continuing to object a separate state.

Some Telangana people who reached higher social circles aping Andhra people harbor very low opinion of their own people and hence oppose the creation of a new state- just the way so many princes, rajahs and babus of India who were aping British opposed Independence of India because they just could not believe an Indian was qualified to rule himself.

A separate Telangana makes sense for one reason alone- that its people want it. One should not suppress the voice of so many people who want to have their own identity and a new state within the legal framework of this nation. Their wants are not illegal or illegitimate. Their wishes do not harm other people. Their aspirations are not taking away rights of others.

A separate Telangana is an eventuality. Prolonging this outcome will only increase the animosity of Telangana people towards those who oppose it. Already we have seen many such protests in Telangana which target Andhra people for their woes. Delaying this eventuality will only cause more pain to the region and will not be good for the future of the two states which share the same language. The people of Andhra Pradesh should welcome this aspiration of its people, respect it and make way for a new Telangana.

When you see the wave of change as an eventuality, you should just embrace it and ride the wave - that's what mature people do.

Update: The later parts of this blog are at Telangana III, Telangana IV.


30 comments:

  1. Sujai,

    You did a good job on weekend.

    I read ur all 3 BLOGS.I agree ur hardcore supporter of Telangana state but to prove ur point u don't have to cut a line from prev. topic which was a conclusion for a discussion or question whatever u say!!

    In ur first BLOG one guy said something as below u pasted it in u r second BLOG and answered it by supporting ur view.The contect was different in whihc he said and u turned it into ur context.

    In u r BLOG "Telanagan 2" u said soemthing as below:

    "One guy writes:

    Let us think telangana is formed and according to your dreams you now have huge req. in state for jobs.. Are you going to recruit educted guys of telangana or non-educated guys ??

    If your answer is "educated" guys then that what happened when AP state was formed.Andhra guys who are educated got the job."

    To my knowledge he wrote it in a reply to some guy saying "we lost our jobs"


    You took a different meaning of that.A govt. job means 30 yrs secured job.Of a guy joins b/w 1960-1970 from there 30 yrs is 1990-2000.When AP state is formed taht was a fact that telangan guys were less educated when compared to andhra guys.Please check the history before u take a wrong meaning.Now from 1975 or 1980 even if telanaga guys are educated but u can't ask the govt. employee recruited in 60-70 to leave their jobs.

    And after 1990 how many govt' recruitments happende?

    I think this was the guys intention(I believe).After reading all the comments I understood this is what he meant to say.
    His question was even if telanagana state is formed "U r going to recruit only educated guys and not uneducated guys" which is absulutely a correct question.

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  2. "Don’t we have many states speaking Hindi?"

    We have people speaking Hindi in many states and not States divided on Hindi language.North India people speak hindi it doesn'e mean they all are hindi guys ?? Except UP and Madhya pradesh do u have any other state which has Hindi as thier state language?

    Even in UP urdu is the major language.I think Madya pradesh is the only state where hindi is completely dominating.

    And how can you ask people to club bangladesh into West bengal?Strange one.

    As said by someone in other topic which ever new states are formed they never has state capital in division. Now when Telangana comes its the state capital thats need to get divided. Thats why u have this much problem.Most of the TTD money have been spent here for developing "Hyderabad".People of other district won't agree do divide it even it comes under telangana districts.


    Anyways my views will never match with urs and discussing on this topic will always raise grudge between two districts against each other.

    Regards

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  3. We have people speaking Hindi in many states and not States divided on Hindi language.

    Nobody is asking Telangana based on language either! :)

    Andhra Pradesh was one of the first states in India to be formed on the linguistic basis and it has taken Telangana into it – only because of language and nothing else.

    I discussed this to tell people that we don’t have to feel that we will lose our identity just because there will be two states speaking the same language. And I cited many states in the North who speak Hindi but do not feel their identity is lost to drive this point.

    Think before you write. You are wasting your time and you are wasting my valuable time.

    And how can you ask people to club bangladesh into West bengal?Strange one.

    Yes, I find the demand for remaining united on the basis of language a strange one. To bring out that strangeness in that demand, I had to put forth an equally strange request.

    Now when Telangana comes its the state capital thats need to get divided.

    Please divide up New Delhi and give a portion of it to Pakistan. Then we will discuss dividing Hyderabad and give a portion of it to the rest of Andhra Pradesh! :)

    (You ask a ridiculous question, you get a ridiculous answer!)

    [Write your name so that I know what comments to avoid next time.]

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  4. *As said by someone in other topic which ever new states are formed they never has state capital in division. Now when Telangana comes its the state capital thats need to get divided. Thats why u have this much problem.Most of the TTD money have been spent here for developing "Hyderabad".People of other district won't agree do divide it even it comes under telangana districts.
    Could you give some reasons on why Hyderabad needs to be divided when the same did not happen with any other new state formation?
    You say TTD money has been spent for the development of Hyderabad. I would really appreciate if you could provide any data supporting this.
    Now coming to your another argument. I guess those statements were also posted by you. 'Hyderabad got developed after the formation of state'. My understanding was that Hyderabad city was rich in Nizam's tme too. Im looking for data. I would post it when I get it. But if you have data stating probably Hyderabad is smaller and poorer than Vizag or Vijayawada, please post it.

    Now another of your statement. ' You people want Telangana because it is developed'. Im assuming it was yours.

    Let me say it the other way. I make a statement saying 'Andhra people are cribbing about Hyd bacause it is developed'. What do u feel about it?
    Now if I say Godavari districts were developed after the state formation with the aid of irrigation projects. Some part of those districts which got developed after state formation should go to Telangana. Does it make any sense?

    The whole root of the Telangana state is the Andhra Pradesh formation and Telangana region not getting the fair share of development.Im not talking about hyderabad development compensating it. It did not make any difference to other districts.

    How many people of Coastal Andhra would like their capital to be Hyderabad after the division of new states? If I were from Andhra I would like the capital be in Vizag or Vijayawada or any other place in Andhra.

    -Bix.

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  5. Sujai,

    You have presented the most sophisticated argument for Telangana that I have ever heard.

    However, I have many questions in my mind.

    Is it not true that:

    1. Hyderabad is a well developed city in 1956. But Telangana as a whole (including Hyderabad) is much backward than Coastal Andhra in 1956. The opposite is true today.

    2. There is significant development in Telangana after 1956. In terms of CAGR in the period 1956-2006 of any development indice (Per Capita income, Literacy, Life Expectancy etc), Telangana performed better than Coastal Andhra.

    3. Telangana today is far ahead of Andhra on any indice if you include Hyderabad City.

    4. Most development statistics quoted by Telangana proponents consider Telangana minus Hyderabad.

    5. Uttarkhand, Jharkhand or Chattisgarh are carved out of backward regions of the state excluding the capital city. All of these states are formed after the respective legislative assemblies passed a resolution.

    6. In the event of separation of state, Andhra and Rayalaseema are left with no major city that has decent infrastructure for a capital city.

    7. The most prominent Telangana leader (KCR) threatens to throw out settlers and their businesses after the formation of Telangana while Indian constitution permits free movement across the country. Post formation of Telangana the masses would expect KCR style actions since their passions are whipped up.


    Regards,
    Hyderabadi

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  6. Sujai's comments are stating that now they will ask for a seperate Stae and after few years they will ask for a seperate nation hood and will be ready to join with Pakistan.

    That's the reason he is asking to give PArt of delhi to Pakistan. Still we are not able to settle our kashmir issue and now he is asking for giving Delhi to Paki.

    And I want to tell that Sujai doesn't have any right to stay in this country and fight for a state with his bad attitude.

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  7. the one reason which stifles me is this ..

    "on basis of states, we need to divide jobs giving a preference for the local people".

    A state or an economy can benefit only when people who are interested in a domain get to work in that. This divisiveness is not going to help anyone at the highest level. Imagine if Bombay, Bangalore (where I bet that 30% of the working class are from "ANDHRA PRADESH") say this stuff.

    Regionalism at this core looks sillier than many other things. We are still grappling with issues of reservations, etc. which our ancestors left for us as a legacy to bear with.

    And in a democracy, casting aside some benefits for a particular sect can be best described as a "sick" practice.

    A final parting quote ---

    The world's moving towards globalisation and acceptance of different cultures, but looks like many here are still in a time warp --- the development will look superficial as long as such ideas exist ...

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  8. If restricting government jobs to its own state people is 'regionalism'. Then restricting government jobs to its own country people is 'nationalism'.

    So, how come certain government jobs, even in the West, are restricted to a country's citizens?

    In this 'globalisation era' how come we still have positions restricted to citizens? Hmm.. I wonder!

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  9. Hyderabadi:

    You have to excuse me for the delayed response.

    To your points 1, 2, 3, I would like to see if you have any basis for coming to those conclusions. Because we in Telangana believe the opposite [It could be that there is some propaganda].

    5. Uttarkhand, Jharkhand or Chattisgarh are carved out of backward regions of the state excluding the capital city. All of these states are formed after the respective legislative assemblies passed a resolution.

    I am beginning to disbelieve your sincerity. The new states were formed after a resolution was passed in Indian Parliament, not the state assemblies. None of the states were ready to create new states within their borders.

    7. The most prominent Telangana leader (KCR) threatens to throw out settlers and their businesses after the formation of Telangana while Indian constitution permits free movement across the country. Post formation of Telangana the masses would expect KCR style actions since their passions are whipped up.

    KCR is a wily politician just like so many out there. If he comes into power he cannot resort to extra-constitutional measures. So please be assured.

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  10. If restricting government jobs to its own state people is 'regionalism'. Then restricting government jobs to its own country people is 'nationalism'---

    Were you trying to derive some sense from those words ?? Frankly mate, I believe that the national policy needs to be changed, rather than beat our chest saying that its the right process. The unfortunate thing with the present day "thinkers" is that they think in the awkward manner, just the reason for all the inner trauma our nation's facing.

    Its also to do with your immaturity in having guaged our country. I have lived in 5 different states of India now, and all I see around are Indians ... but radical thoughts without good sense often tend to disturb the tranquility we possess.

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  11. I believe that the national policy needs to be changed,

    To what?

    but radical thoughts without good sense often tend to disturb the tranquility we possess.

    ?? Are we discussing 'vedic sciences' here?

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  12. Sujai: [...] the tranquility we possess. Are we discussing 'vedic sciences' here?

    => Tranquility = "Vedic sciences" and Chaos = "Rest of the sciences" :)

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  13. Telangana must be separated quickly.., otherwise every elections will be playing around on it.., most of the AP people got now perfect idea on wat is telanagana,? even telanaganites become more sentimental these days,if we continue as one state,there will be more issues to face (Regionalism),already leaders start pushing students,so we must not see 1969 again! support Telangana pls... I appriciates u r efforts Sujai...

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  14. My father is from Vijayawada, my mother grew up in Hyd and Nizamabad. I was born in Hyd, grew up in West Bengal and Vizag - educated in Haryana. My wife is from Nizamabad but actually a Maratha settled generations back in Nizamabad. She speaks better Telegu than me. I was schooled outside AP and hence cannot read/write Telugu. If there is a separate Telangana, will I be considered native because I was born in Hyd or will I be an 'outsider' because my dad is from Andhra? What will be the status of our kids? I think all people like me should fight for a separate 'neutral state' - lets call it 'nispaksh pradesh' where normal Indians like me can live in peace after being driven out by 'justice upholding' regionalists like Shiv Sena or TRS.

    I found it absolutely hilarious when the other day TRS went about Hyd, changing boards in front of hotels - from 'Andhra Meals' to just 'Meals'. What next? Forcing them to stop serving andhra style dishes?

    I do not see any discrimination in awarding ranks in EAMCET, ICET, MBACET...I do not see any discrimination in Satyam, Wipro...etc while recruiting people. As of now I have not been discriminated based on the fact that I have been born in Hyd (telangana again).

    In fact all major industrial development has been concentrated in the Telangana region (except for VSP abd VPT). If indeed there was discrimination, why hasn't the industrial development concentrated in Andhra and Rayalseema?
    Educationwise - OU, JNTU, NIT and Kakatiya are in Telangana. IIT is coming to Telangana. What about HCU, National Law School, Urdu University.....all in 'telangana'. Rest of AP has only AU and SVU.

    All this development has been done without any regional feeling. NTR developed Hyd much more than Vijayawada. CB Naidu developed Hyd over Chittoor. There are around 1,50,000 IT/ITES jobs in Hyd - mostly thanks to CB aggressively promoting this in Hyd. You can realise the amount of related employment this has generated - real-estate, rentals, cab services, demand for food and vegetables, Cab drivers, catering, Mess, hotels, restaurants.....

    There is no doubt that irrigation projs have been neglected in Telangana and to be honest I do not know why that has happened but I will not agree that there is a 'big conspiracy' to discriminate against Telangana in *all* fields.
    This is a misconception created by self serving politicians - it is easy to convince anybody that they have been discriminated against.
    And agriculture in Rayalaseema??? don't make me laugh. The name itself reflects that there is little agriculture there.
    In fact there is ample evidence to argue that there is reverse discrimination.
    Even Costa/Andhra region - Vijayawada, Rajahmundry....have no major dams. It is lucky that two major rivers make deltas in that region.

    My opinion is that *because* Telangana has developed and gets lots of tax revenue, this has triggered greed among the political class and financially powerful people. They have started this movement and are getting support by playing on emotions rather than appealing to reason.

    Most of the people reading this blog will be educated - why doesn't somebody create a list of what progress has been made in Telangana? We can then compare progress in costa and Rayalaseema.

    If the people born in the telegana region want a separate state - they have full right to that but citing discrimination is just opportunism. The Telangana separatists are welcome to a separate state even simply because they want it. They need not stoop down to the level to try to claim discrimination while it has been the opposite. Thats like Geroge W. Bush claiming world food shortage is a result of Indians eating more - the actual reason being US is diverting food grains for bio-fuel.

    I am born in Hyd and am not too passionate either way if there is a separate Telangana. I would prefer and unified state as more MPs will get us more clout at the center and a bigger unit has the benefit of size when it comes to attracting Industries and investments. On the other hand, smaller states are easier to administer. Whatever the outcome, I will definitely be very embarrassed to claim I have been discriminated against. I will be even more ashamed to be represented by KCR.

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  15. I am completely in sync with the above post. "My father is from Vijayawada. My mother is from... ", all the arguments he said are clearly true. They say a lot people from Andhra region are taking jobs in Hyderabad. If this is the case who is deprived of development. Why the Andhrites had to look for a job in Hyd if it itself contained so many oppurtunities. The critique on Chandra Babu was that he neglected the rural people and developed only Hyd, Andhra region depends more on agriculture and pisciculture than the Telangana, whereas TELANGANA more depends on the industries. Irrigation was neglected I agree, but it was not because of discrimination. Geographicaly Telanga is at a higher level than Andhra, that is the land is higher (remember the deccan plateau, the highest plateau in India we studied in geography books in school), so the water doesn't stay there, it flows fast down the coastal region. I am not aware of what government has done to meet this problem. Even the new IIT which is to come will come to telangana... Infact CB gave more funds to Telangana than to Andhra. Can you quote any one political party that says that it will take care of the problems of Telangana. Not even the Lok Satta which is founded by Jaya Prakash Narayan, an IAS officer. Don't you think he knows anything about the Telanga's issues. The TRS only it it will fight for a new state. How will he enhance the irrigation ??? no answer... Infact very less people have the answers for this question regarding Telanga....

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  16. Anonymous:

    [It helps if you identify yourself]

    You wrote:

    My father is from Vijayawada, my mother grew up in Hyd and Nizamabad. I was born in Hyd, grew up in West Bengal and Vizag - educated in Haryana.

    If there is a separate Telangana, will I be considered native because I was born in Hyd or will I be an 'outsider' because my dad is from Andhra?

    There are clear rules on who is considered a native of a state or not. It is not special to Telangana alone. The same rules will apply to you. There are many Tamils being raised in Maharashtra who are considered native of Maharashtra.

    She speaks better Telegu than me.

    Speaking better Telugu is no criteria to be a Telugu. If that is case, then we will be holding exams in Telugu to give Telugu status. That’s not how it is done.

    I was schooled outside AP and hence cannot read/write Telugu. What will be the status of our kids?

    Your status of which place you belong to legally is decided strictly along the rules already established in India. However, if you are not sure about your kid’s status as Telugu kids just because you cannot read/write Telugu, then that is something only you and your kids can answer – not the legal system of India.

    I think all people like me should fight for a separate 'neutral state'

    Yes, you can do that – in Mars, and some places in Antarctica (I think). Meanwhile, please fight for a neutral country too.

    I found it absolutely hilarious when the other day TRS went about Hyd, changing boards in front of hotels - from 'Andhra Meals' to just 'Meals'. What next? Forcing them to stop serving andhra style dishes?

    Yes, that is hilarious. The same way Tamils struck out Telugu names in Chennai while it was being decided whether Chennai (then Madras) should go to Tamil State or Andhra State. The same way some hilarious Americans changed ‘French Fries’ to ‘Freedom Fries’.

    Such gimmicks take place all the time. That doesn’t mean they are any less ridiculous.

    But at the same time, it does not mean the whole movement is ridiculous just because some parties resort to such changing names.

    I do not see any discrimination in awarding ranks in EAMCET, ICET, MBACET...I do not see any discrimination in Satyam, Wipro...etc while recruiting people. As of now I have not been discriminated based on the fact that I have been born in Hyd (telangana again).

    Rule #1 in trying to understand discrimination:
    Just because YOU have NOT been discriminated DOES NOT mean discrimination doesn’t exist.

    Even Costa/Andhra region - Vijayawada, Rajahmundry....have no major dams. It is lucky that two major rivers make deltas in that region.

    You don’t need dams to get water. You need canals that connect to those dams.

    My opinion is that *because* Telangana has developed and gets lots of tax revenue, this has triggered greed among the political class and financially powerful people. They have started this movement and are getting support by playing on emotions rather than appealing to reason.

    Good that you have this opinion. Reality is a bit different.

    Andhras wanted to bring Telangana into their fold to get Hyderabad whereas Telangana people protested this merger right from the beginning- in 1956, in 1969 and now, there is a prolonged political struggle. Before the current political struggle, it was always a mass movement. In fact, time and again, it was the political class that betrayed Telangana struggle (as in 1969).

    I would prefer and unified state as more MPs will get us more clout at the center and a bigger unit has the benefit of size when it comes to attracting Industries and investments..

    Then why don’t you ask for recreating a bigger Madras Presidency including Andhra, Tamil Nadu and other regions. Even better, you can ask for one single state in whole of India.

    I will be even more ashamed to be represented by KCR.

    KCR is not Telangana and Telangana is not KCR. There is a very a good chance that he will not rule Telangana as a CM. If he does, you can be ashamed. But then many people in India are ashamed of their rulers.

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  17. Hi there, am just a bit curious. I know the whole Telengana thing is happening around, but as am a Moslem my concerns are a little different. I have read ur article and I don’t know why I don’t find the formation of Telengana of any help to the Moslems. Am a liberal Moslem with an open mind, however I don’t want RSS or the Bajran Dal kinda people who are burning Churches and Raping Nuns in Orissa, to come to Telengana and do the same. And in one of your arguments you said it was kinda shame to be under the Nizam. Well, am not that bad with history but as far as I know Hindus and Christians had a good life in the Hyderabad State, and there never was communal Violence with religion as a cause. That alone I feel is an accomplishment which the Country of India has not yet been able to accomplish. And wat if the Moslems dominate the Hindus, Moslems are not blood thirsty animals that would devour Hindus. I as a Moslem feel it does not matter who dominates whom, but as long as there is Peace and prosperity and no violence that’s more important. Will be waitin for your reply. Thanks. You ca contact me on smzaidi0@gmail.com

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  18. Nosferatu Des Necropolitant:

    I am not sure if I ever said that I am ashamed that Telangana was under Nizam.

    I have no problems with having Muslim majority or Muslim minority in a state - that should come out clear from my support for a separate Kashmir state.

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  19. Sujai,

    reading your blog makes me feel how educated people like you are misguided. Nobody including you has the clarity about why a seperate telangana. If its just for constructing dams and for jobs then there is no point.

    1) How many jobs is government offering in present times? And private sector is a level playing feild. Can you ask Microsoft and Google to hire people from telangana because they have offices in here. I wonder in which location you are working???
    2) Geographically telangana is not suitable for constructing large dams, instead it should be small projects that needs to constructed to use water properly.
    3) Hyderabad, everybody has put a hand in it...and you cant claim it for one area...
    4) Can you assure that all said development would be happening if you get a seperate state?
    5) India and pakitan were in the same boat when seperated...Now can you compare both?

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  20. Anonymous:
    Nobody including you has the clarity about why a seperate telangana. If its just for constructing dams and for jobs then there is no point.

    I never said Telangana is only for constructing dams and for creating jobs. The basis for separate Telangana is given in nearly 5 posts on this blog.

    Can you ask Microsoft and Google to hire people from telangana because they have offices in here.

    There is nothing wrong in asking companies that are given SEZs and sops in a certain region to hire a a predefined minimum candidates from the local region.

    2) Geographically telangana is not suitable for constructing large dams, instead it should be small projects that needs to constructed to use water properly.

    It doesn’t have to be large dams – even small dams would do. We are not asking ONLY for LARGE dams.

    3) Hyderabad, everybody has put a hand in it...and you cant claim it for one area...

    Are you saying that certain portion of New Delhi belongs to British because they put their hand in it?

    4) Can you assure that all said development would be happening if you get a seperate state?

    Why any assurances? Did India give assurances to British that we would develop our country before we got our independence? Did Chhattisgarh, Uttarkhand and Jharkhand gave assurances before they got their statehood?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Hi Sujai, my name is Srinivas, a Visaka guy but working in B'lore.

    I read the entire blog...everything...

    You have proved the point in favour of seperating Telangana. I think it is better Andhra & Telangana divided without any further arguments. Atleast this is my personal opinion, when there are so accurate & stong evidences presented at your side, it will be unrealistic if we continue in opposing so....

    We should divide and plan for the betterment of both the ends (e.g. sharing the natural resources, jobs etc.,)..

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hi Sujai:

    I am a not an affected party but read your comments since it is now a burning issue.

    Thanks to your clearcut and logical analysis, I am a supporter of the Telanga State. Let it be achieved without any bloodshed and let it help the people there.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hey Sujai,

    My background - A guy born and brought up in Nizamabad, settled in Hyderabad whose parents have roots in Andhra region. My ancestors might have come to Andhra from Maharashtra. :)

    Although I feel sad that Andhra Pradesh is breaking up, it is the fundemental right of a region to get separated (within the laws of our country) if it rightfully feels so and the Govt must go ahead with separation without undue delay.

    Totally agree that most of Telangana is still backward and it has given enough chances/tries being with Andhras. Telangana should be allowed to do its own business.

    Hyderabad will continue to attract and have people of all ilk. Andhras are good at integrating into any culture and prosper (Galis of Karnataka etc., a bad example though)

    I only hope Telangana is served well by the political class that's going to rule it.

    All the best to the new state -- I hope the Govt does not delay it any longer than absolutely needed :)

    ReplyDelete
  24. Immaculate Bigot:

    Our political class has a long way to mature up. I guess its a pandemic problem in India.

    I guess we have to try to create systems and institutions such that we still get half decent governance in spite of extremely bad and corrupt politicians.

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  25. Yes. But I prefer if we put our efforts to clean up the rotten political class rather than creating alternatives 'in spite of' them. They would anyways prosper, otherwise. I know its difficult but I am hopeful we are tending towards it.

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  26. Sujai,

    Good that, you are making an effort to respond to every comment. What I found difficult to accept is, that you are not giving any references and simply brushing a side if some one is giving a reference. I really want to debate on every point that is posted, but before that can you tell me if I'm wrong. I'm raising these questions based on one of your post.

    1. Didn't Hyderabad state assembly passed a resolution to merge with State of Andhra which got 2/3 majority. As far as I found, almost all the members that opposed were from Karnataka and Maharastra not from Telangana. Doesn't it mean that Telangana leaders accepted the merger in 1956.

    2. Two major parties during that time, Congress and CPI openly supported the merger. I do definitely read out of context quotations of Nehru, BR Rao etc, but I can give you more quotes of the same leaders in support of the formation of AP.

    3. In 1969, isn't it true that the movement was started to continuation of 1956 Gentlemen's agreement (GA). Which in its original form was supposed to expire in 1966 itself. Please tell me this is not the truth.

    4. If Telangana people (not leaders) were so passionate about separate state, why only one TPS member was elected in 1972 assembly election. You may want to bring back 10 seats that they won in parliament election but if you want we can start analyzing what happened based on the newspapers of that time.

    5. When Andhra people started "Jai Andhra" movement in 1972, why did every one in Telangana was so quite. Shouldn't they simple accept Andhra movement, so that they can get their 'cherished' state.

    If you can answer them with any reliable reference other than KCR/Harish Rao propaganda, we can have a reasonable debate.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Azad:

    1. Didn't Hyderabad state assembly passed a resolution to merge with State of Andhra which got 2/3 majority. As far as I found, almost all the members that opposed were from Karnataka and Maharastra not from Telangana. Doesn't it mean that Telangana leaders accepted the merger in 1956.

    As far as I know no such event took place. There is no documented evidence for this. Some of us have been trying to find the evidence for this claim and so far we have not got any reference, including the archives from the newspapers, libraries, RTI act, etc. We are beginning to believe that this is another myth floated by our detractors. By the way there are many such myths floating around.

    Assuming that such an event actually took place, and assuming Telangana members voted to merge with Andhra Pradesh, it would still be a conditional merger because of the promises made in Andhra State through two resolutions (for which I have reference) which were captured in Gentlemen’s Agreement.

    2. Two major parties during that time, Congress and CPI openly supported the merger. I do definitely read out of context quotations of Nehru, BR Rao etc, but I can give you more quotes of the same leaders in support of the formation of AP.

    You are right. They supported the merger. In legal parlance, Telangana agreed to merge with Andhra based on certain conditions (Gentlemen’s Agreement).

    To understand why we are upset with our leaders, you have to distinguish Andhra and Telangana political parties on the basis of to what extent these leaders were representative of its people. Andhra had a history of nearly half a decade of democracy under British Rule, where Congress party thrived, held elections, elected leaders, etc. Telangana didn’t have similar democratic institutions under Nizam rule, and therefore they just started experimenting with their elected leaders.

    3. In 1969, isn't it true that the movement was started to continuation of 1956 Gentlemen's agreement (GA). Which in its original form was supposed to expire in 1966 itself. Please tell me this is not the truth.

    I know that Rules of domicile were set to expire, but not the entire agreement. [I could be wrong].

    [Contd…]

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  28. Azad:

    4. If Telangana people (not leaders) were so passionate about separate state, why only one TPS member was elected in 1972 assembly election. You may want to bring back 10 seats that they won in parliament election but if you want we can start analyzing what happened based on the newspapers of that time.

    You have to see it in the context. After 1971 elections, all TPS politicians abandoned cause of Telangana and joined Congress bringing new set of promises. Indira Gandhi did not entertain any secessionist talks and was ready to take charge if the politicians continued to seek separate state. Telangana people felt betrayed by their own politicians. Disenchantment and disillusionment set in when TPS couldn’t deliver on Telangana. Eventually TPS withered away.

    The same happened between 2004 and 2009 elections. People were disappointed with TRS when they couldn’t deliver on Telangana. They voted them out in 2009. Unless TRS delivers, they will fade away too.

    Indian democracy doesn’t give people a chance to recall their leaders or hold their leaders accountable other than wait for the next elections. Between two elections, the politicians can change stance, dance, completely go against election manifesto, and people cannot do anything about it. The politician bids his time and hopes to create enough good will before the next election. That’s the only little dose of accountability the political leaders of India extend to their people of India, and he bets on the getting his act right before the next elections.

    That’s what most Telangana leaders of the present time are betting on. They know that they cannot face the people in another election – hence they do not resign. Rather they wait for next elections in 2014 and hope they achieve Telangana before that.

    5. When Andhra people started "Jai Andhra" movement in 1972, why did every one in Telangana was so quite. Shouldn't they simple accept Andhra movement, so that they can get their 'cherished' state.

    According to Telangana people, Jai Andhra movement was a movement designed to roll back Mulki Rules and bring down the CM who hailed from Telangana. Nobody actually believed that there would be bifurcation of the state. Especially after 1969 suppression, it was clear that Indira Gandhi is not going to accept any talks about bifurcation. So, Telangana people believed it was a movement to blackmail the center and nothing more – and that’s exactly what happened. Supporting such a blackmail movement whose success actually goes against the interests of Telangana (rolling back of Mulki rules and bringing down the first Telangana CM) doesn’t make sense for Telangana.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Telangana is one of the most nice blog, I think that the information is som interesting to read,the people who were mentioned were so so important and nice.

    ReplyDelete
  30. From Vijay

    Andhra is afraid of loosing internationally famous Hyderabad and identity if separated. They are interested only in Hyderabad, Godavari and Krisshna waters not all those other districts. Yet there were many marriages from this region to that region. Strictly speaking majority from Telangana region dont want separation at all.
    It is all self aggradisement of couple of selfish beings for their self advancement at the cost of gullible and peaceful people from telangana. Hardly 0.000000001% are into agitation for selfish reasons. God will never forgive them. Even it is separated the state will see distruction by selfish political parties and finally it will merge back like two Germanies. If there is genuine progress going to be there after separation it is ok. No state has progressed after separation.

    ReplyDelete

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