I have been forwarded an online book published by Nalamotu Chakravarthy called “My Telugu Roots”. One of the chapters is titled, “Telangana State Demand Built on a Platform of Lies”.
I don’t know if I can verify all the statistics presented in the book. I thought of taking up verification of only some data. Since WATER has been one of the biggest contentions in Telangana issue, let me start with water.
As of 2003, only 10.1% of Telangana land is irrigated, while a total of 23.3% of Coastal Andhra is irrigated. [Calculated from Water Resources Information System, Government of AP.]
Percentage increase is an extremely flawed statistic, which is being used by Nalamotu Chakravarthy. Suppose in region A you start with 1 acre and add 2 acres to it, it is seen as 200% increase. But in region B you start with 100 acres and add 50 acres, it looks like only 50% increase. Without knowing where one started, it looks like region A is doing much better than region B, when in fact the region A has only 3 acres while region B has 150 acres. Nalamotu Chakravarthy uses such a strategy.
Telangana has been historically fed with tank irrigation, but it has become expensive to maintain tanks and the budget allocation for this has been gradually reducing. Many tanks in Telangana have disappeared because of lack of funds to maintain them. Telangana has been asking for canal water that is fed by constant source in rivers. Though canal irrigation was promised to Telangana in all agreements they did not get their fair share. Therefore, ground water became the last solace for Telangana. Nowadays the water tables are depleting and it has become very expensive to take water from the ground.
Here, I stick to canal irrigation statistics. This is data from a presentation made to make a case for Polavaram Project. These are not my pictures.
It is clear from the above graph that canal irrigation in Coastal AP is nearly five to six times that of Telangana. Also, take a look at the pictures below. It is clear that Telangana is massively dependent on ground water in the last thirty years. How long will this water last? Already the depth at which the water is obtained is going further and further down, making it impossible for many farmers.
I think it is the way you present the facts. Nalamotu Chakravarthy has presented the facts the way he wanted to, while Prof Jayashankar presented the facts the way he wanted. I have presented the facts the way I wanted to. As Nietzsche said:
There are no facts, only interpretations.
The fact that there have been promises made by Andhras and eventually broken is good enough reason for Telangana to quit this marriage of convenience. The fact that a lot of water was promised to us but not delivered is a good enough reason to file a case against Andhra Pradesh once Telangana is formed.
As separate state, we would like to improve our status in irrigation through canals, dams and tanks, and we don’t want to be hijacked and blackmailed each time with your show of strength just because you hold a majority in the State Assembly or because you have put many of your officers in higher places all over Andhra Pradesh, including Telangana.
Addendum [08 Jan 2009]:
It looks like the data I presented above has led to more questions than answering any. In fact, I didn’t expect to answer any questions. I just wanted to say how data can be used by different people in different ways.
Right now, three modes of irrigation are considered: Canal, Tank, Ground water. When Telangana became independent of Nizam, the predominant form of irrigation was through tank, while the predominant form of irrigation in Coastal Andhra was through canal. That’s because while British created modern methods of small irrigation projects with canal systems, Nizam worked on age-old system of storing water in tanks.
After Independence, it was clear throughout the country that major source for water will come from canals. That’s why there was a big drive on part of Nehru to build dams and canals. Andhra Pradesh got its share of dams and irrigation projects. It was clear that there will de-emphasis on tanks while there will be more concentration on canals.
With this, there were dams, irrigations projects and canals were planned. There was supposed to a fair share for Telangana. AND that did not come. That is more important than any other statistic.
Because tanks lost their sheen in the modern India, and since Andhras did not deliver us the canal waters as promised, Telangana people had to resort to the worst way of irrigation – through ground water.
While ground water is considered OK as potable water, it is not the best way to irrigate your land. It is expensive, unreliable and doesn’t get replenished easily. And yet, Telangana is forced into using that water to irrigate its lands, otherwise death faces them on daily basis.
Reasonable Andhras who want to really understand this should instead look at all the agreements that were signed but not adhered to, and answer why they defaulted on their promises, instead of commenting on how the statistics are being used wrongly by different authors.
Addendum [10 Jan 2009]
The author writes:
According to the Bachawat award, Kosta gets 366 TMC, Rayalaseema 122 TMC, and Nizam Telangana gets 260 TMC of water from the River Krishna. Readers might have noticed that the water allocation does not add up to 800 TMC—the remaining water is retained as a provision for evaporation.
I am not even sure if Bachawat recommended Krishna water for Rayalaseema. I couldn’t find any recommendation from Bachawat on allocation of Krishna water for Rayalaseema [I will read through the Bachawat Report once again]. Assuming what the author quoted is right about Bachawat, Telangana should still get 42% of Krishna Water vis-à-vis Coastal Andhra’s 58%. Right now, Rayalaseema doesn’t get water from Nagarjuna Sagar Dam.
Looking at the actual TMC numbers, and counting only 75% of left canal (even though W Godavari which is at the tail end rarely gets the 25% water) Telangana still gets close to 40% of the water.
In reality, the Left Canal feeds Nalgonda, Khamman, Krishna and West Godavari. The author conveniently forgot to mention Krishna – which takes up 35% Left Canal. The author also makes a wrong assumption that less than 25% of left canal actually reaches West Godavari (while dropping Krishna from the numbers). Going by the records of Water Resource Information System, Coastal Andhra irrigates 36% from Left canal while Telangana region irrigates only 64%.
As a net result, Telangana gets 30% of the Krishna water while Andhra gets 70% of the water. Compare this with the original premise of the author about Bachawat which gives 42% to Telangana.
Professor Jayashankar purportedly wrote:
Nagarjuna Sagar meant to benefit Andhra and Telangana regions equally is modified in such a way that 75% of the benefit is accruing to Coastal Andhra reducing the share of Telangana region to just 25%.
Prof. Jayashankar’s might have given the number 25% (instead of current calculation of 30%) because he is looking at much larger timeline than this author who starts his data only in 1997. Going back in time, it is clear that discrimination was pronounced and therefore 25% of share for Telangana seems plausible.
I found some good information at: Telangana Marginalised
[The related posts are at: Case for Telangana, 6: Hyderabad State?, 8: You need to make a case, History of Telangana I, 10: Congratulations!, History of Telangana II, 11: Why so much opposition?, 12: Ignorance, Bad Faith and Low Opinion. 13: Let’s stay United!, 14: Letter to Andhra Brothers, 15: Concerns, 16: Samaikya Andhra, 17: More Concerns, 18: Betrayal, 19: Hyderabad a Union Territory?, 20: Welcome the Change, 21: Status of Hyderabad, 22: Cheat the Cheated, 23: Tidbits, 24: United we Stand, 25: Congratulations Andhra, 26: Untoward Incidents and Unity, 27: Violence mars Telangana Agitation, 28: Stickers, 29: Reporting from Hyderabad, 30: How Telangana Movement Spread, 31: Free 1948. Surrender 1956. Free 2010. Telangana 32: Don’t give in. Don’t give up.]
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteAnd regarding the jobs,
Telangana people already suffered an irreversible damage because of the andhra bureaucratic and power play. Infact many jobs were made gazetted to circumvent Prez. order(illegal according to Girglani's report).
GIRGLANI commision's report on that issue clarifies it strongly.
NOw all those andhra people who joined these jobs have established as locals and their children have become telanganites. All that is presented by Nalmotu only reflects the demographic shift of telangana but not the actual upliftment of telangana poor.
For example he conveniently forgets to provide the funds given to aided colleges in AP since last 30 years which are shrply skewed towards andhra.
So what is the use of schools and coleges when funds are not allocated equitably?
And the secondary grade teachers' pay scale was increased after 1975 and somehow the local proportion of those jobs were nullified by citing the increased pay scale.
These are all given in the report.
And these stats are completely dependable.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteThere is a peer reviewed journal paper published in Economic and Political weekly in 1997 by S. Simhadri that clearly explains how telangana river waters were deliberately exploited by irregularities in project planning.
It gives a good picture of how the bureaucracy that is constantly replinished by employing andhra employees only(as described above) can help cover up the irregularities.
The article title is River Water Politics in Drought prone areas of Telangana
How can you be sure that Telangana as a sovereign State will obtain what it needs in an easier way compared to what it obtains when it is not sovereign? Novel States are, most of the time, weak, so everything is to be done from the very time it has independence... However, I am okay to say that one had better break the chains and evolve as an independent entity, even though it may take a while before getting its advantage in it, rather than living in a system that lasts for ever the way it always was, and which get you lost. In France, there has been a similar debate about our old colonies (Martinique, Guadeloupe, Reunion island, etc.) People living out there say french economical policies are not adapted, because they do not take into account specificity of those islands (particularly, the fact that they must import stuffs by sea a lot more than we do in Europe, and european policies do not fit well with their needs). They would like to get more tied to islands around them, for the obvious reason that they would benefit from exchanging with them. They are asking for self-decided adapted policies, and some of the people out there (not everybody but some) even demand independence. Apparently, those against independence claim it would open the gate for criminality, which was seen to be so in Haiti... It seems like this is the price of freedom.
ReplyDeletei agree with Nalamotu Chakravarthy
ReplyDeleteI have been reading ur blog posts on Telengana for sometime now and I more and more convinced about the demand. But tell me onething, dont u think creating new state will strengthen the Maoist.
ReplyDeleteIn West Bengal, Maoists are primarily active in the border districts. After carrying out their operations they slip into neighboring states where WB police has no jurisdiction.
In such a scenario no progress can be made until there is co-ordination among the states. Veerapan continued to remain a menace for almost 2 decades(he operated in a region bordering 3 states) . Under the present circumstances, if a state is carved out, then there is going to some animosity between the two new states. This may mean lack of co-operation between the police forces of the two states.
What do u have to say about that?
Telangana people needs to blend in with rest of Telugu race. Its high time we talk about self respect issues in films.
ReplyDeleteAll arabs, chinese have done great progress and build great cities like Dubai.
There are many differences between different tribes of arabs but they all under strong leadership were able to build great cities and structures like burj building. Its a tribute to arab spirit.
Lagadapati wanted to build tallest building in Hyderabad and now due to petty differences Telugu race is once again broken.
Sandy,
ReplyDeleteHow many deaths caused by Maoists in the past year?
How many deaths caused by automobile accidents?
How many deaths caused by poor drinking water?
How many deaths caused due to overcrowding in Mumbai trains every day? That is 10/day my friend, 3500 guaranteed per year.
6,000 children die every day in India.
Gather numbers like that. Next, rank the problems on the number of deaths. You will see where number of deaths due to maoists and number of deaths due to pakistan based terrorists.
Arithmetic is a useful tool, my fried. Learn to use it.
Don't believe what the Govt says. If they don't convince you there is a foreign threat, they can't justify spending 40 - 50,000 crores on defense. Of which, 90% is direct deposited into politicians swiss bank accounts.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteIs Telugu a race? Is the race being threatened? Is it facing extinction?
How does building tall buildings help anyone?
You are forgetting the part what needs to be remembered. Arabs, Chinese have made great progress.
India hasn't. India is the single largest poorest place. Except a few select districts in sub-Saharan Africa, there is no place on earth as poor as India.
Telangana – Breaking the media blackout
ReplyDeleteI have just seen the ad for Idea on TV, in which a person is reading the news on his mobile and the headline states “Andhra to be split”. The message of the ad was mobile applications will reduce the need for newsprint and papers, saving trees and the environment. What an idea Sirji!
So what if the Andhra and Rayalseema owned media blanks out news on the struggle for Telangana. We have the power of the internet and twitter to propagate our cause. I just ran a search for Telangana on google and it threw up over 2 million pages. There are over a 100 sites dedicated to Telangana, a thousand blogs, innumerable discussion forums and tweets. The internet is exploding with Telangana based content and the way things are going, it will soon be the most searched for word in the sub-continent. In fact, there is a page on the proposed map of the state of Telangana, on mapsofindia, India’s No.1 map site, you can see it at http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/telangana/telangana-state.html .
The Telangana detractors seem to believe that blacking out the news of Telangana, will bring an end to the struggle, they are wrong. The power of the net will help us broadcast the case for Telangana to the world. With Telangana based content being uploaded every 5 seconds, there is no way our roar for a separate state be forced to a cry in the wilderness. The struggle is taking place in full view of the world, my earnest appeal to the Telangana brothers and sisters is, keep posting and writing on the happenings in our villages, localities, districts and in Hyderabad, the capital of Telangana. We will leverage the power of the internet to propagate our news to the world.
We are determined to throw away the yoke that is Andhra Pradesh, and all of us right from school children to retired pensioners are willing to sacrifice our all for a free state.
Jai Telangana
Jai Hind
www.twitter.com/kishoreneera
http://telanganaprajasamithi.blogspot.com
http://telanganaprajasamiti.wordpress.com
@neera
ReplyDelete" keep posting and writing on the happenings in our villages, localities, districts and in Hyderabad, the capital of Telangana. We will leverage the power of the internet to propagate our news to the world. "
Well said neera !! That is exactly the need of hour for us telanganaites and should be done in full force....educate, educate and educate as many people as you can. This will result in it becoming more of a people's movement and less of a political game
"But tell me onething, dont u think creating new state will strengthen the Maoist."
ReplyDeleteI do not see any logic here. Irrespective of which state a criminal is, still the indian penal code remains the same. Do you think the new state police will be befriending the maoists? Again there is no such risk, because the police heads will be the indian civil service recruitees.
"In West Bengal, Maoists are primarily active in the border districts. After carrying out their operations they slip into neighboring states where WB police has no jurisdiction."
Of course I see the smell of sandal wood in your speculations. It seems as if the neighbour states do not collaborate in hunting criminals. Do you have any examples for such situations?
"In such a scenario no progress can be made until there is co-ordination among the states. Veerapan continued to remain a menace for almost 2 decades(he operated in a region bordering 3 states) ."
So you mean to say that had the states of TN, KA and KE been a united state or had a unified police force, then Veerappan would have been caught briskly (i.e. < 2 decades).
"Under the present circumstances, if a state is carved out, then there is going to some animosity between the two new states."
You suspect animoisty to the extent that police of two states do not co-operate in hunting the criminals.
"This may mean lack of co-operation between the police forces of the two states."
This is a key course in the police academy for inter-state issues.
@Idyler
ReplyDeleteI asked this question to Sujoy and not u. Since u r not intellectually capable(probably not ur fault) to comment on a topic like this, don't try and do the same.
Decisions on Maoists is not taken on the basis of actual number of deaths but their potential to cause damage, their annual budget, their increasing sophistication, etc etc.
Plz dont rack ur brains to divert attention by quoting useless facts.
@Sandy:
ReplyDelete"But tell me onething, dont u think creating new state will strengthen the Maoist."
I do not see any logic here. Irrespective of which state a criminal is, still the indian penal code remains the same. Do you think the new state police will be befriending the maoists? Again there is no such risk, because the police heads will be the indian civil service recruitees.
"In West Bengal, Maoists are primarily active in the border districts. After carrying out their operations they slip into neighboring states where WB police has no jurisdiction."
Of course I see the smell of sandal wood in your speculations. It seems as if the neighbour states do not collaborate in hunting criminals. Do you have any examples for such situations?
"In such a scenario no progress can be made until there is co-ordination among the states. Veerapan continued to remain a menace for almost 2 decades(he operated in a region bordering 3 states) ."
So you mean to say that had the states of TN, KA and KE been a united state or had a unified police force, then Veerappan would have been caught briskly (i.e. < 2 decades).
"Under the present circumstances, if a state is carved out, then there is going to some animosity between the two new states."
You suspect animoisty to the extent that police of two states do not co-operate in hunting the criminals.
"This may mean lack of co-operation between the police forces of the two states."
This is a key course in the police academy for inter-state issues.
their potential to cause damage
ReplyDeleteFloods, volcanoes, earthquakes have the most potential to cause damage. Nuclear weapons countries (US, Russia, China) have the most potential to cause damage.
Your intellectual ability is limited by your inability to do arithmetic! :)
@malgudidays
ReplyDeleteThere is absolutely no point in getting aggressive. I can do the same as well, but i wish to restrict myself to giving logical arguments.
And kindly do not tell me about "key course in the police academy for inter-state issues". We all know how efficient the police really is, be it any state in India.
This is my speculation and pretty logical one. Same Indian Penal may apply everywhere, Law and order is a state subject and it is the police and state govt. who run the law and order.
@Sandy:
ReplyDeleteI assumed that your question is for any reader. Sorry for the intrusion. But in future, can you (and others) please restrict the scope of your question by disambiguating the addressee. For instance, the first comment on this thread is clearly addressed to Sujai.
@Sandy:
ReplyDelete" We all know how efficient the police really is, be it any state in India"
If this is the case, then it would not make any difference on the whole setup even after the partition. Isn't it?
@Idyllic
ReplyDeleteComparison of Maoism with Volcanoes
Is it really Idyllic or Idiotic?
Tussi gr8 ho. With every comment u r proving how bigger idiot u r. I am sure if I stay in this discussion, u shall surely reveal the human limit to idiocity (i really wished that was a legitimate word).
But i have no such desire, i wanted to ask a question Sujai which I have done. I shall not b wasting my time by replying to idiots like Idylic.
Just one last point, Maoism is refered to as our biggest security danger for a gu reason....becoz its internal and widespread in about 150 districts of the country.
This last point was not for the Idiot becoz I am sure he cannot understand it.
@Sujai
Keep blogging, i really enjoy reading ur posts. But for sometime u seem to have restricted urself only on Telengana.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteYou seem to have overlooked the absolute numbers and details wrt canal irrigation and presented a graph for simpletons to understand. However a number of 11 lakhs in 1956 and 12 lakhs in 2001 is easy enough to understand as well with respect to coastal areas.
In T, the number is 1 lakh in 1956 and 3 lakhs in 2001.
Quoting from myteluguroots,
"Professor Jayashankar references the canal irrigation numbers of 2001 showing the Telangana region as having a mere three lakh hectares under canal irrigation when Kosta has a whopping twelve lakh acres. The fact is that the Kosta region had eleven lakh hectares under canal irrigation for more than 100 years before the integrated state of Andhra Pradesh was formed"
Sandy,
ReplyDeleteComparison of Maoism with Volcanoes. Is it really Idyllic or Idiotic?
Govt has SCARCE resources. It has to focus investments on what is most important.
Should we invest in Disaster Management Systems? or Security? or better Drinking water supply? Education?
If India had infinite resources, these questions are not important. India is so piss poor that it can't even afford making people literate.
You must realize that what scant resources Govt has - are paid for by the people in the form of taxes. They deserve their money to be treated with respect. Which, an arithmetically blind person like you can't understand.
Some grim reminders about Indian poverty: 37.7 per cent of Indian households do not have access to a nearby water source; 49 per cent do not have a proper shelter; 69.5 per cent do not have access to suitable toilets; 85.2 per cent of Indian villages do not have a secondary school; and 43 percent of the villages do not have an all-weather road connecting them.
26% of Indian population is starving (Govt figures, unofficial estimates are higher), 79% of Indians live on less than Rs. 840/month. For these people, the problem of maoists/naxals is completely and totally meaningless.
I'm not asking for too much from you. Only this, learn arithmetic!
A good read on telugu language and the political angle to it...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.andhrajyothy.com/editshow.asp?qry=/2010/jan/4vividha2
As Sujai said, today the question of Telangana is not about economics or development, in simple words the arrangement in which the AP state was formed were not honored or respected, all the successive govts repeatedly and continuously violated the arrangement contract which resulted into huge mistrust on other two regions leaders or people, as a result lead to current crisis i.e a strong demand for self rule.
ReplyDeleteIt’s very sad and painful to note that this part of the history or arrangement had been closed secret or not disclosed or discussed anywhere in history books believe me NONE, except a strong section in Telangana region, rest of AP (including current generation of Telangana) it is forgotten or unknown or never heard, even after 1969 tragedy, instead they (Govt) made or making mockery of history by christening Potti Sriramulu as founding father of Andhra Pradesh!!!
Politicians or Govt had given false impression for last five decades to new or all the generations in all three regions that we are in par with rest of the states in India, purely established or formed based on linguistic lines and established a founder for this arrangement i.e Potti Srimulu who has nothing to do with formation or Andhra state joining with Telangana.
Its irony that the successive politicians have ignored such a sensitive issue of Telangana by not honoring the agreements executed and as result its traumatizing the people of all regions who have became victims of current scenario or situation.
If the three (NTR, Babu, YSR) powerful CM’s of AP had taken the arrangement contract seriously we wouldn’t have seen this crisis, they were so capable leaders in implementing or transforming the entire state to new level and garnering the respect from across the state and national leaders, if they would have had put small and sincere effort in honoring the arrangement, we wouldn’t have witnessed this crisis.
These three leaders should have been bold and shouldn’t have bent to pressure of secretariat employees or who so ever. These three CM’s derived equal or more respect in Telangana then in other two regions, unfortunately they ignored or forgotten that a large section of people in Telangana always or didn’t forget that they are not full filling the promise given to Telangana (i.e agreements or arrangement in which AP was formed) even after a strong warning signal in 1969.
These leaders should had educated the Andhra politicians and people on the arrangement AP was formed...instead taking the arrangement contract for granted !!!
ReplyDeleteIt’s very sad and painful to note that this part of the history or arrangement had been closed secret or not disclosed or discussed anywhere in history books believe me NONE, except a strong section in Telangana region, rest of AP (including current generation of Telangana) it is forgotten or unknown or never heard, even after 1969 tragedy, instead they (Govt) made or making mockery of history by christening Potti Sriramulu as founding father of Andhra Pradesh!!!
Read the book 1984 by George Orwell.
You will see the big brother carefully managing the information and doctoring History to suit their ambitions and re-program the public.
Isn't it OUTRAGEOUSLY CRIMINAL?
In FREE INDIA, 360 students died for their freedom... and their own (???)STATE AP doesn't recognize them as martyrs!!!
@ Sandy
ReplyDeleteComparison of Maoism with Volcanoes
Is it really Idyllic or Idiotic?
Tussi gr8 ho. With every comment u r proving how bigger idiot u r. I am sure if I stay in this discussion, u shall surely reveal the human limit to idiocity (i really wished that was a legitimate word).
You should read the book Mobs, Messiahs and Markets. After reading the book, you will laugh at most of the things media throws at us.
With reg. to your comments on Idler, I don't have to explain where you go wrong with regards to 'casting' someone into a category presumptuously.
@Sandy
ReplyDeleteBrother sandy you look like an intellectual from the picture you presented , but brother please don't address others comments as an idiotic gestures it may hurt feelings at times ,try to justify your comment if you can, or at least try to present it well (if you want to address some one particularly) so that all can understand, everyone is not as brainy as you are and also my humble request for all to maintain a friendly discussion environment on this blog. Please don't express your aggressiveness as every one can be as well and also you are not here to judge some ones intellectuality nor you certified to do that, more over you must be informed, its not an instant messenger conversation , its a discussion forum, Sujai invited everyone of us to share our ideas , if u cant bare some ones intrusion on your topic , you better take Sujai's IM ID or may be an email ID for your personal enquiries...Thank you and god bless you
Jai Telangana
Sujai and Sravan,
ReplyDeleteI think most of the data that you got to refute Nalamotu are from sources that are Andhra haters. These organizations are filled with Telangana sympathisers. All the peers who reviewed those journals are break up supporters.
Just like all the media is filled with Andhra supporters.
Hmmm...devious Telangana people. Ring a bell?
Stop creating authenticity to your sources of data and blaming any other sources to be partial.
Having said that I am not against creation of Telangana state as long as justice is served.
On the merge there is an agreement created called 'Gentleman's Agreement'
ReplyDelete1. Again we had 'Presidential Order' because some one broke the 'gentleman's agreement'
2. Again we had 'Six Point Formula' because some one didn't like(or broke) the 'Presidential Order'
3. Again we had G.O. 610 because some one broke/trashed the 'Six Point Formula'
4. Now again some one broke/trashed GO-610. Shall we wait for another new agreement/GO/rule which is going to be trashed in future?
And every one knows that 'some one' is from Andhra. Why is it so difficult for them to stand on there word? Don't they feel shame asking us to stay united even though they know they betrayed there brother?
Sujai: "Suppose in region A you start with 1 acre and add 2 acres to it, it is seen as 66% increase.
ReplyDeleteWanted to point a mistake in your calculations. When you add 2 acres to existing 1 acre, its 200% increase, not 66%.
Sujai: "Percentage increase is an extremely flawed statistic"
ReplyDeleteHow is it flawed statistic? To me, it seems more a relevant statistic than absolute numbers. No development happens like magic. It has to happen gradually over a period of time and percentage increase is a good measure of where we stand now compared to where we were some time in the past.
In your canal irrigation graph, your data starts in the year 1970. The fact is that even by 1950s or before, the area irrigated by canals in kosta was 10 times more than that of Telangana. Not withstanding all the claptrap of diverting water to Coastal Andhra, it seems that more area is added for canal irrigation in Telangana than the remaining 2 regions of AP!
The passionate supporters of Telangana have to realize not all the information that comes from sources like telangana.org / TDF are true. Realize that there is other side to the story and try to look for the facts objectively.
Well said Kiran, AP state was formed purely on a contract when the contracts are not honored what moral right one have to ask to stay united?
ReplyDeleteWhile on walk in KBR park couple of days back a coastal friend asked why I am for pro Telangana ? I wanted to give him an understanding with an example in his own business language or activity…here goes.
Two neighbors wanted (does not matter who convinced who) to club or merge their respective A (600 sqy) & B (400 sqy) plots to yield more built-up area, save on taxes etc and also agreed to jointly select architect, contractor, specifications, procurement etc and one fine morning they executed an MOU or contract based on agreed terms.
Now the fun (project) part started Plot-A owner starts taking unilateral decisions, Plot-B owner is under frustration he approaches society well-wishers who comes with some compromise formula, but unfortunately irrespective of repeated compromises, warnings etc none of these make any effect on Plot-A owner, he still taking unilateral decisions and also blames or accuses that Plot-B owner is hindering the progress of project, shows or reports to everyone that there is more or equal progress in Plot-B then in Plot-A.
Plot-B owner is very frustrated he not only lost control on JV but sadly lost rights or no decision making capability on his own plot (i.e B).
Other than raising the voice for justice and equipped with numbers (quantities of cement, steel, water, power, labor, payments etc) there was nothing much he could do so in-turn he became emotional, no realistic work etc where as Plot-A owner has been credited that he his entrepreneur, aggressive, visionary, rich etc seems in a new economy not honoring the agreements or contracts is called as entrepreneur, visionary…
One fine day after five decades of struggle, community well-wishers decides to break the JV, interestingly Plot A owner also expressed his willingness to break the JV on few occasions but when the big day arrived (Dec 9th) Plot-A owner goes into panic mode and does not want to break the JV…
Why ???
Again in simple language of real estate:
1) Plot-B is in front portion abutting a main road (WATER) where as Plot-A is on rear side, more precisely Plot-A will be at mercy of Plot-B owner to gives road access (WATER), that’s one of the big concern or hidden truth behind Plot-A not giving control of JV to Plot B.
2) Since Plot-B is on front side some part of it was suitable for commercial activity, but even before the JV was formed Plot-B owner already had some shops (commercial activity) abutting main road with proper sewage, water, transport connectivity etc obliviously it had scope for additional shops, now since for last five decades the JV was under full control of Plot A owner.
Obviously Plot A owner capitalized or exploited the business opportunity to raise or increase commercial activity in the front portion i.e on Plot B owner land would like to repeat on Plot B owners land, Plot A owner claims and screams at very high pitch that he developed the commercial activity so he need or have rights on that property or portion of land as well!!! Irrespective of Plot-B owner agreeing to honor or not let go or disturb even a single activity of Plot-A owner he his bent upon claiming front portion of commercial activity!!! i.e either we continue the JV (Water) or give the commercial portion ( Hyderabad) to me…
Man just cannot appreciate the entrepreneurship, visionary of Plot-A owner…
How is it flawed statistic? To me, it seems more a relevant statistic than absolute numbers.
ReplyDeleteManohar, you do sound like a reasonable man. Please think again what you said, and look at the example I cited in my article [btw, thanks for the correction.]
Usually percentage increase help on an incremental basis seen on regular intervals, when all parties concerned are considered to be more or less equal or competing partners (like GDP one year-on-year basis or profit growth for companies on quarterly basis).
Hey Sujai,
ReplyDeleteI just read Nalamotu Chakravarthy's report.
The data is incorrect.
A case in point is RajoliBanda Diversion scheme which does not irrigate much land, but he claims something like 19TMCft of water.
So, it appears that the data is about what has been promised rather than what has been realized.
He speaks about industries in Nizam (excl. Hyderabad). what are the industries? BHEL,BDL,Midhani,DRDO,HMT. all are outside Hyderabad and percent of Telangana people working there is very low.
All statistics given by Telanganites are correct(from many incredible sources), but those given by others are incorrect. Obduracy at best!! Why don't you guys just accept that you want to thieve away the wealth created in Hyderabad by asking for Telangana. If you think that only you guys can carry non-cooperative movement to achieve a separate state you are sadly mistaken. No amount of such tactics will yield any results as long as there is no compromise formula convincing the entire population of AP.
ReplyDeleteKrishna R,
ReplyDeleteIf facts are true no body can help.
Why don't you just agree that if telangana is separated then the costal districts have to share the water resources equitably and would not have the political hold on decisions made for telangana?
It is simply true that if telangana separates anhdra had to forgo the unilateral benefits it reaped from this power tactics.
That is the whole and the sole reason why andhra people are objecting the separation of state.
There is no united we stand bull shit actually intended.
Even we separate we are still bonded by our telugu culture and we still belong to one country.
Addendum [08 Jan 2009]:
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the data I presented above has led to more questions than answering any. In fact, I didn’t expect to answer any questions. I just wanted to say how data can be used by different people in different ways.
Right now, three modes of irrigation are considered: Canal, Tank, Ground water. When Telangana became independent of Nizam, the predominant form of irrigation was through tank, while the predominant form of irrigation in Coastal Andhra was through canal. That’s because while British created modern methods of small irrigation projects with canal systems, Nizam worked on age-old system of storing water in tanks.
After Independence, it was clear throughout the country that major source for water will come from canals. That’s why there was a big drive on part of Nehru to build dams and canals. Andhra Pradesh got its share of dams and irrigation projects. It was clear that there will de-emphasis on tanks while there will be more concentration on canals.
With this, there were dams, irrigations projects and canals were planned. There was supposed to a fair share for Telangana. AND that did not come. That is more important than any other statistic.
Because tanks lost their sheen in the modern India, and since Andhras did not deliver us the canal waters as promised, Telangana people had to resort to the worst way of irrigation – through ground water.
While ground water is considered OK as potable water, it is not the best way to irrigate your land. It is expensive, unreliable and doesn’t get replenished easily. And yet, Telangana is forced into using that water to irrigate its lands, otherwise death faces them on daily basis.
Reasonable Andhras who want to really understand this should instead look at all the agreements that were signed but not adhered to, and answer why they defaulted on their promises, instead of commenting on how the statistics are being used wrongly by different authors.
The statistics put forward by our andhra brothers do not at all hide the fact that telangana people were rendered poor and powerless.
ReplyDeleteThe statistics simply are trying to prove null hypothesis here and fail to do so. Because it is certainly obvious that telangana is backward.
Krishna R:
ReplyDeleteI didn’t start this blog to educate or convince every Andhra person. That would have been presumptuous. Also, that would have contradicted our stand that there is no way out of this mess other than a separate state. If Andhras as a lot were reasonable people, they would have shown that reasonableness in the last fifty three years, which they didn’t.
This blog is for Telangana people who are really keen on learning and making a case of separate Telangana, for those who are neutral but want to find out what this mess is all about, and also for those limited set of Andhras who are genuinely interested why Telanganas fight for a new state so passionately and vociferously.
I am not trying to convince you.
Why don't you guys just accept that you want to thieve away the wealth created in Hyderabad by asking for Telangana.
According to us, Hyderabad is just a small part of our cherished desired for self-rule. We fight for Hyderabad on a principle– that we brought this city with us when we entered the marriage, and now we want to get out of the marriage, with that city. Yes, we understand that it has been developed quite a lot with contribution of lot of people, including Andhra and Rayalaseema people, but we also make a case for how much we lost because of this marriage and we believe that growth of Hyderabad hardly compensates for the loss we endured. Giving up Hyderabad now would be tantamount to giving a bribe to the thief to get your goods back.
If you think that only you guys can carry non-cooperative movement to achieve a separate state you are sadly mistaken.
Well, why don’t you write the same after few years when Telangana is formed. Many British wrote off Indian Independence Movement that was using non-cooperation as a tool. But eventually India prevailed. Telangana will prevail.
No amount of such tactics will yield any results as long as there is no compromise formula convincing the entire population of AP.
We will get Telangana without having to convince the entire population of AP. There is no need for the victim to educate the bully. What victim has to do is escape the situation where the bully continues to bully us. And that’s what we are trying to do.
Educating Telangana people is the first step, educating the whole country (minus Andhra and Rayalaseema) is the second step. With that we will get Telangana. You can remain unconvinced forever.
Sujai,
ReplyDelete"There was supposed to a fair share for Telangana. AND that did not come. That is more important than any other statistic. "
The % growth numbers in canal irrigation suggest that out of total % growth in the state since 1956, telangana got its fair share. Even if I assume for arguments sake that telangana didnt get its fair share, where is the basis for your claim that coastal and rayalaseema were developed at the cost of telangana and water and funds were diverted?
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteEven if I assume for arguments sake that telangana didnt get its fair share, where is the basis for your claim that coastal and rayalaseema were developed at the cost of telangana and water and funds were diverted?
Krishna water is not utilized for drinking or irrigation in Mahbubnagar district through which the river courses its most distance in AP.
Nalgonda had been duped by the irregularities in NS LBC construction. Initial plans to supply waters to most of Nalgonda and even the semi arid regions of Khammam and warangal districts never saw the light of the day. Instead bureacratic and political power tactics helped keep the water in krishna as reservoir for the irrigation needs of Costal Andhra whereas millions in Nalgonds district suffered from poor drinking facilities and Flourosis(Can you deny that?)
Funds spent on Sagar are shown as the funds spent in Telangana because it is geographically in Nalgonda although it majorly caters the irrigation needs of CA.
LBC was diverted to Krishna district instead of Khammam and Warangal.
Of the planned 125 km of LBC length only 75 Km was completed by late 90's. By then major funds were utilized to develop only RBC and actually exceeds its inital planned length today.
Srisailam reservoir and Dam present at Nalgonda and Kurnool border only supplies water to Rayalseema and Chennai. Water is stored in this reservoir to replenish the Sagar reservoir in times of extreme drought whereas the people of Nalgonda are still waiting for proper drinking water.
Left Bank tunnel which is actually best suited for uplands of Nalgonda could actually fulfill the drinking and irrigation needs of the Nalgonda. But in place of it a highly expensive, less resourceful and environmentally destructive lift irrigation from N Sagar is being favored so as to keep the Srisailam dam as carryover reservoir for N Sagar.
Here it is imortant to note that SLB Tunnel was already cleared by CWC and Enviroment Board.
I think this may gve you some insight but it is only tip of the iceberg and more is in store.
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteHere I would like to add...
Of the allocated 800 TMC of Krishna water to be used by AP 67% is utilized in Costal Andhra. The bureaucratic power play had helped keep it that way by discouraging any project plans that could be utilized in Telngana. And AP uses all of the 800 TMC of Krishna Water.
So if separate state forms Andhra had to forgo its supply to provide for the right ful share of telangana.
THis is one of the main background reasons for resisting separation
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteI am not trying to convince you.
All you are trying to do is convince people(of Telengana) that what you show them is correct what everyone else says is wrong.
we believe that growth of Hyderabad hardly compensates for the loss we endured.
That difference in opinion between Telangana supporters and United AP supporters is the problem. I think the break up would be easier if this opinion of Andhras is changed.
But the problem is that you think that your sources are correct and others are wrong. And the Andhras also think the same.
I think the ideal end to this problem is that everyone gets their share being united.
If that is not possible I think this problem will be delayed for a few more years and Andhras will start investing in other parts AP during that time. And a few years down the lane when the movement gets hot again Andhras will not feel cheated and will cut the cord eventually.
Hopefully the first one works out.
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteI would like to correct my mistake here. CWC did not approve the SLBC because AP is already using its 800 TMC of Water.
So if it needs to be approved then Costal andhra might just loose some of its water.
But given the drinking needs of millions of nalgonda people and its irrigation who do you think should be prioritized?
@Idyler Or I shud say Idiot
ReplyDeleteSo finally u have managed to something that makes sense - "India does not have enuff resources". True, so does that means we shud spend everything on education or health or poverty.
u seem to be interested a lot in arithmetic a lot. That surprising for an some1 with an intellectual capacity like u.
I guess u have never heard of something call Decision Analysis. When resources are limited, then funds are allotted in accordance of their relative probability of occurrence and their payoffs(+ive or -ive).
Naxalism has a negative Payoff. It could potentially lead to break up of the Indian Union itself. And it has a decent probability of occurrence. Decision on how much to spend on Education, Health are taken after considering their relative benefit/drawback.
Don't bother cracking it, becoz THIS IS NOT JUST SIMPLE ARITHMETIC. Arithmetic is ur forte, dont try and venture out anywhere else.
@SHRI
ReplyDeleteNeither do I claim to be an intellectual nor do I have any desire to project myself as one. I am merely who is concerned abt the state of our nation, the rising Naxal threat. I merely raised the naxal angle because Telengana region is much poorer than Coastal Andhra and has much more Naxal support.
As far as calling names to some1, yes I am guilty of that. And if some1 was hurt by my comments then I am extremely happy becoz that was exactly my intention. If some1 tries to make fun of ur argument by comparing Naxalism with Automobiles accidents, volcanoes n what not, clearly such an individual is not well.
And he needs to be told exactly that. In case u have not noticed, another user called Malgudidays also attacked my comment but he was more logical in his approach. I did not at all attacked him personally at all and replied in an extremely subtle manner.
I am well aware of basic etiquettes on online forums. But i am not some1 who backs down in case some1 attacks me personally.
Jai Telengana
Ah! Trying to befuddle the issue using the standard MBA tactic of buzzwords!
ReplyDeletedecent probability of occurrence
Unfortunately, "decent" is not a number. Probabilities don't go by words such as decent, indecent, appropriate, inappropriate, etc.
Do state the probabilities of naxals, probabilities of floods, automobile accidents, poverty, education.
And the positive or negative payoffs of each. Do cite your sources. Lets do some math baby!
Don't think you can bypass your arithmetic limitations by using more buzzwords! :)
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense. - John McCarthy, Professor Emeritus of Computer Science at Stanford University.
ReplyDelete@Idiot (thats wat I wud call u here on)
ReplyDeleteIf I knew the exact probabilities, I wud have been a consultant advising the Govt of India. Further, if any1 cud quantify them into numbers with exact certainty, he wud surely be a candidate for a Nobel.
As far as MBAs are concerned, yes thats what we do, cite buzzwords, but there is a logic behind every1 one of them.
And its really gud tht u have realized ur limitation and quoting others. Perhaps now u too believe that u are not capable of anything logical.
Has arithmetics been able to quantify everything. What abt say something like Art?
U see thats the difference between Human Intelligence that includes intuition and Computer Intelligence that is based on mere arithmetic.
Good Luck in life. U seriously need help.
Off topic but couldn't resist this comment...
ReplyDelete@Sandy - why do you continue to address @Idyler instead of Idler...is there something I am missing? is this your attempt at sarcasm? Or you work at one of those call centers? Wait, no- what am I saying? You use lotta buzz words.. you must be a clueless MBA.
Sandy bro,whatever it is, your stupidity makes me wanna beat the crap outta something!
@Rajesh
ReplyDeleteThanks a lot for pointing it out. Well the reason for that cud b becoz I am stupid(as told by u) or it cud b typos. But it is really interesting to see that while I kept trying to convince Mr I.... , and he kept diverting by stating weird facts on volcanoes or automobiles.
While I came here to discuss on Telengana, there are loads of ppl who like to discuss other stuff. Good for u buddy, now that u have joined Mr I.... m u are in terrific company.
I supposed stupidity is measured how one types one particular word rather than one presents his arguments. Thanks buddy for letting me know this fact.
Sandy,
ReplyDeleteYou would not discern intelligence even if it hit you on your head!
Forget probability, decision analysis and other buzzwords that you don't have the foggiest idea about. You gotta demonstrate your arithmetic competency first.
I gave you the relative numbers of death by each which you can compare and see. By any metric, maoism is a problem that is completely meaningless to people of India.
Now, you gotta prove why your maoist theory is important. Show some numbers, probabilities, weighted payoffs.
If you don't have any numbers, at least show some sportsmanship, admit your mistake (its ok to admit ignorance! thats how you learn!) and move on.
Attacking me may help you boost your ego which is hurt, but doesn't solve what needs to solved: your arithmetic blindness.
Indian degrees are as good as $3 bills. Degreeholders are largely illiterate and you are one more exhibit (Exhibit S) as proof. But, I don't blame you for ails you, for you are a victim of this education scam!
Wish you good luck with arithmetic this new year!
Sandy,
ReplyDeleteYou write articles on your blog - which clearly shows that you are anti-Telangana and yet say Jai Telangana in your comment.
At least our Andhra brethren stand on their conviction of United AP (regardless of how empty and meaningless that is!)
I don't know if there is a word for pathetic creatures like you in the dictionary.
Sandy:
ReplyDeleteBut tell me onething, dont u think creating new state will strengthen the Maoist.
I am not sure if more borders are the only thing that strengthens Maoists. If that is the case, the best way to root out Naxalism is to integrate all Naxal-affected areas into one single state.
But the question remains, is terminating Naxalism so important that we are willing to sacrifice our aspirations for self-rule? If that is case, then people of Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Telangana, and Northern Karnataka should be willing, or forced to form a united state to root out the Naxal problem.
All the above analysis sounds a bit awkward, because we are looking at the problem quite differently. Not many people on this forum may agree with me on this, but hear me out.
I don’t think Naxal problem is a threat to national security. If ever it is a manifestation of backwardness, helplessness, and poverty in certain regions of our country. It is a reflection of things that have gone bad in our efforts to build an equitable society.
Once I asked DIG of Andhra Pradesh at a dinner, the following questions. “So Sir, when do you think we will get rid of Naxal problem?” He answered, ‘That’s a naïve question’. He continued, ‘Naxalism will be there as long there is backwardness and poverty.’
As few other observers, he has equated the problem of Naxalism with our own ineffectiveness to bring opportunity to these parts of the India.
Unlike many of you, I believe that Naxal problem can solved only through development, more education, and access to opportunity.
And one of the reasons why Naxalism took root in Telangana is because of failed aspirations of Telangana youth after 1969-72 debacle where India failed them on all fronts – democratic, electoral and legal.
Not giving Telangana now is only going to further strengthen Naxalism in Telangana.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteFeel free to delete this post if you find it inappropriate. I wouldn't mind the least bit.
I don’t think Naxal problem is a threat to national security.
Naxal problem is only a threat to politicians, land-grabbers, power brokers, feudal elements.
Anybody who asks politicians inconvenient questions, is labeled a naxalite, and done with in an encounter. Its a nifty tool for politicians.
Naxals keep the vilest elements in Indian society in check. And thats why the politicians hate them.
They enjoy popular support in villages and remote areas. No villager (except feudal landlords) feels threatened by them. The reaction of a villager to a policeman and naxal is diametrically opposite. Policeman inspires fear, naxal - some confidence and security.
Policemen only protect politicians and their many diversified interests.
And what the govt labels as maoists, were the freedom fighters in Nizam's era. The villagers don't understand this --- just like India's wouldn't if Bhagat Singh and Subhas Bose were labelled terrorists.
Mumaith Khan:
ReplyDeleteThanks for writing.
Feel free to delete this post if you find it inappropriate. I wouldn't mind the least bit.
Why would I delete it?
Its a free country. Anyone can say anything as long as they don't indulge in personal attacks.
I have been a bit lenient of late on that aspect.
@Sujai
ReplyDeleteThanks for replying.
You r certainly right in saying that Naxal will remain as long there is poverty. But it is also true that it is present much more in Telengana than Coastal Andhra.
Further, I dont think that Naxalites and Tribals are the same. Surely, Naxalites have fought for the Tribal and their land rights. But they have a larger agenda. They want to overthrow the present system, bring in Communism and Maoism. Thats what is worrying. And also their growing level of sophistication. I am cynical of their intentions because Maoists are supporting the Telengana cause. What is their motive....i have my doubts.
But I have no doubt that states need to be re-organized to ensure faster development. The present system has not been able to meet the aspirations of all large section of citizens of India.
@ Anonymous,
ReplyDelete//But the problem is that you think that your sources are correct and others are wrong. And the Andhras also think the same.//
What makes u say that? Is there any discussion on facts underway in public domain now? Prof Jaishankar's studies on Telangana have been in public domain for years now and his source is "Bureau of Economics and Statistics, Andhra Pradesh". As Sujai pointed out, the difference is in perspective, at least in the example of canal irrigation. What abt other stats? did u go thru them and compare them?
The fact is that even after a month of agitations, there is no meaningful debate on the discrimination met to Telangana, with the statistics. If indeed Jaishankar fudged the figures as some seem to suggest, why cant the Govt release a white paper and trigger a debate, that is if it has nothing to hide?
Till they do that, the questions wud persist despite the denial mode of Andhrites.
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteThe inequality in the allocation of resources to Telangana continued even during the tenure of YS Rajasekhara Reddy. Of 26 projects contemplated to irrigate 59 lakh ha of land in the state, as much as 43 lakh ha will be irrigated in CAP and Rayalaseema, and only 16 lakh ha will be irrigated in Telangana . Moreover, the irrigation projects contemplated in Telangana are lift irrigation schemes meant for drip and sprinkle irrigation; these imply considerable investment on the part of farmers in sprinkler systems in contrast to no such investment on the part of farmers from CAP on account of canal irrigation.
This is sad because the two major rivers—Godavari and Krishna—run through Telangana.
Amar,
ReplyDelete"Bureau of Economics and Statistics, Andhra Pradesh". As Sujai pointed out, the difference is in perspective, at least in the example of canal irrigation. What abt other stats? did u go thru them and compare them?
Isn't that Bureau filled with Telengana supporters?
That was the kind of reply Sujai and Sravan come up with when I quoted a news item from IndianExpress.
That is the mentality and that is mentality of most of the people. So there is no ending to this.
As far I am concerned I don't think statistics and figures of who is getting what is not matter anymore. Only question is how viable is it for these regions to live together in future. There is deep mistrust between the regions and especially more among Telanganites regarding andhrites since the formation of state in 1956. Therefore it is not viable for these two regions to be in same state. I only see this as a fight for Hyderabad as the andhra brothers ( either in Hyderabad or in Andhra region) do not want to lose Hyderabad. Otherwise why would a person from vizag care much if adilabad is in the same state no matter what they speak in this particular region. I don't buy the argument that all telugu's should live in same state. Telugu is the third most spoken langauge. If all telugus have to be in one state current state of AP should have lot of districts from Karnataka, Tamilnau, Orissa and Maharashtra.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThats a Govt agency! Here it is -> http://www.aponline.gov.in/apportal/departments/departments.asp?dep=09&org=72&category=About.
We here have solid statistics released by Andhra Govt, not some subjective news reporting. What are we talking abt!?
Thanks Amar,
ReplyDeletehttp://www.aponline.gov.in/apportal/departments/departments.asp?dep=09&org=72&category=About
Unfortunately none of the links working in above web.
Kiran,
ReplyDeleteIts a govt website run by Andhras! Do you expect it to work??
Have you tried feeding it a 100 rupee note??
Best,
Idler.
thats funny Idler.
ReplyDeleteAny way, I am surprised that even through the whole state is at peak of dividing, still I do not hear any statement from Government like they will start implementing GO610 and finish it with in 2-3years or something like Govt. will release statistics of funds spending on area wise or other info which is useful for the people who can analyze it. Is that mean the claims made by separatist are true? If not what Govt. is afraid of?
Kiran,
ReplyDeleteI am surprised that even through the whole state is at peak of dividing, still I do not hear any statement from Government
Instead they are hiring 1500 engineers for Polavaram project, a project to drain Telangana of water .
Also, look at GO 1845, released last month. For 143 crores or so, of which 9 crore to Telangana.
Sravan linked to a water project in Guntur which meets the future needs.
Vinashakale vipareetha buddhi. They have been continuously massacring Telangana leaders (4000 in 1948, 370 in 1969, and thousands all along), and I suspect they have something along those lines planned.
If you look at how Govt and media are projecting this, you will see a plot emerge.
However, I think the limits of Telangana people are tested. I expect a huge backlash.
Yes, we understand that it has been developed quite a lot with contribution of lot of people, including Andhra and Rayalaseema people, but we also make a case for how much we lost because of this marriage and we believe that growth of Hyderabad hardly compensates for the loss we endured. Giving up Hyderabad now would be tantamount to giving a bribe to the thief to get your goods back.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just you guys who feel that this marriage is not quite perfect and everyone knew it right from the states merger. Even Andhra and Rayalaseema people feel that they should have not merged with Nizam state to begin with, but lot of time has passed now and demerger is only a distant dream.
Please be careful in using acerbic words which only makes things worser. Calling someone a thief and other improper epithets does not fetch you guys anything. After all in the remote possibility that T state is formed you cannot alienate neighbors. So please be careful in usage of your words in so much so you are maligning the entire Andhra people which is nonsense. Realize first that Telugus are the same no matter where they belong to. If Telangana people are well educated they will also bear same attitudes as Andhra counterparts - looking for growth opportunuties which my friend to you is stealing some body elses job.
Any divorce does not end with just satisfying one side. If you want a pie of a region in the rest of the AP please take it. But we definitely want a pie of Hyderabad.
We will get Telangana without having to convince the entire population of AP. There is no need for the victim to educate the bully.
OK if you think you can do it that way, please go ahead with your 'udyamam'. Sadly you have succumbed to Telangana propaganda machine that you think all Andhras as bulldozing bullies. Well if that is your held view, I pity you for being so tyrannical in achieving your goals without polite discussions.
I pity you for being so tyrannical in achieving your goals without polite discussions.
ReplyDeleteBut of course! What is 'polite' discussion to you is massacring 370 people on Osmania Univ campus! LOL!
After all in the remote possibility that T state is formed you cannot alienate neighbors.
ReplyDeleteConsidering we are upstream of you, it would do well for you guys to remember this.
Realize first that Telugus are the same no matter where they belong to.
What do you mean by same here?
Sravan,
ReplyDeleteSince you responded to my question, heres what I have to say to you. I suggest you also read up the link provided earlier esp pages 10 to 13 http://www.myteluguroots.com/chapter_19_10.html
For instance, from the above source,
"Bachawat, while admitting that Andhra Pradesh received a larger share of the river water when compared to its catchment area, ruled against Maharashtra’s and Karnataka’s claims. He relied on the “protection of existing uses” principle in his ruling. This principle guaranteed water to existing projects such as the Nagarjun Sagar and Krishna Delta system."
The same “protection of existing uses” was used for allocation of water to the three different regions of AP.
"According to the Bachawat award, Kosta gets 366 TMC, Rayalaseema 122 TMC, and Nizam Telangana gets 260 TMC of water from the River Krishna. Readers might have noticed that the water allocation does not add up to 800 TMC—the remaining water is retained as a provision for evaporation."
Looking at the actual TMC numbers, and counting only 75% of left canal (even though W Godavari which is at the tail end rarely gets the 25% water) Telangana still gets close to 40% of the water. Therefore the claim that Telangana does not even get 25% of the water from Krishna river is false.
After looking at both claims and analysing the numbers, I am inclined to think that there seems to be a distortion of facts to support your case and a general refusal to look at facts that are contrary to what you know. The actual situation with respect to failed lift irrigation projects is a failure of strategy to deal with the geography of the region on the part of government and your elected leaders rather than any mass scheme to plunder the wealth of Telangana without investing any money into any projects. Development happens in stages and is still underway in many parts of the state. To claim that rest of AP is being developed at the cost of welfare of Telangana is far fetched.
@Krishna R
ReplyDelete" remote possibility that T state is formed "
Remote possibility ?? Please continue to soothe yourself now that you've realized deep in your heart that its a just matter of time
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteTo claim that rest of AP is being developed at the cost of welfare of Telangana is far fetched.
Pilli kandlu moosukoni paalu thaagi, thinks no one is watching!!
Andhra has been developed at the EXPENSE of Telangana! At least some thanks is in order! Instead, you guys are bitter that we question your right to exploit!
Due to neglect of tank irrigation, the area irrigated by tanks in Telangana declined from 4.47 lakh ha in 1955-56 to 1.26 lakh ha in 2004-05.
Krishna R,
ReplyDeleteSadly you have succumbed to Telangana propaganda machine that you think all Andhras as bulldozing bullies.
Before calling us that we succumbed to Telangana propaganda, would you care to explain, why there are many agreements(GOs) created between us one after another in the past?
Oh, wait a minute, I know why, because you guys broke one and created new to calm us down. But you do not care to explain why you had to broke those.
If you explain me about that, then I promise I shut my mouth for my entire life. Otherwise you must not feel bad if some one calls you a 'thief'.
There will be decent dialog discussion who stands on there word, but what the use of talking to you when you dont stand on your word?
Before calling us that we succumbed to Telangana propaganda, would you care to explain, why there are many agreements(GOs) created between us one after another in the past?
ReplyDeleteSeems really stupid and silly to call Andhras as thieves. Aren't your own politicians not guilty and hand in glove of the current situation and hence by your reasoning all Telanganites? Oh yes your politicians are innocent in front of cunning and opportunistic Andhras and therefore not to blame.
Where are the Maoists Mr. Home Minister?
ReplyDeleteThe home minister Mr. Chidambaram, in the All Party meeting on 5th Jan, stressed the fact that the Maoists and Naxals are driving the demand and agitation for Telangana. The home minister based his presentation at the meeting on the report sent by the AP Governor Mr. ESL Narasimhan. Looks like the first task undertaken by the Hon Governor was to prepare the report on the influence of Naxals and Maoists in the Telangana struggle. We all agree the philosophy of violence and extremism is detrimental to our growth. And are managing our struggle in the most responsible and peaceful manner, even under extreme provocation. The Government banned our public meeting on the 3rd and forced us to get the go ahead from the High Court, and even then later on cut the power supply to disrupt our peaceful meeting.
Where do you see the naxals and the Maoists Mr. Chidambaram, were the two lakh students who participated in the Telangana Garjana naxals, is Prof K Jayashankar, the former VC of Kakatiya University a naxalite, or are the members of the Adilabad Bar Association who staged a rasta roko at Penganga river bridge on AP-Maharashtra border Maoist infiltrators. Or is it that the members of Telangana Employees Association, acting at the naxals behest. Or are the members of the “Telangana Pensioners Joint Action Committee”, all retired Govt employees being directed by the Maoists. You Mr. Home Minster, are trying to prepare the grounds for denying the 3.5 crore people of Telangana of their right to govern themselves.
We may not be as powerful or have the money power that those who have been exploiting us like the Rajagopal’s and the Andhra land mafia. But what we have is the will, determination and the grit to carve out our state. We have lived for 50 long years under the shackles of Andhra and Rayalseema domination and chose not to bear the oppression any longer. Read the writing on the wall Mr. Chidambaram, You and your leadership will have to acknowledge and heed to our demand for Telangana.
Jai Telangana
Jai Hind
www.twitter.com/kishoreneera
http://telanganaprajasamithi.blogspot.com
http://telanganaprajasamiti.wordpress.com
Krishna,
ReplyDeleteNobody is claiming that ALL Andhras are bad and ALL Telanganas are good. It would be entirely ludicrous and universally laughed at!
What we both can admit is: There are certain groups of people in both camps who will definitely benefit, either in status quo or in new formed states. Politicians are the bad guys on both sides.
The best way to deal with them is to ring-fence them. We want the freedom to deal with our politicians, and you can have the same freedom. All this finger pointing is doing no good for either people.
@Krishna
ReplyDelete"Aren't your own politicians not guilty and hand in glove of the current situation and hence by your reasoning all Telanganites? Oh yes your politicians are innocent in front of cunning and opportunistic Andhras and therefore not to blame."
Oh not again !! Same old stale story of blaming telangana politicians. Mr.Krishna, will you please do a favour and make an effort to go throught some of Sujai's original posts or any of the comments posted to find your answer ?
Tip: If you are trying to search in comments, click on 'Show all comments' and do a search for the word politican. That might yield faster results.
Thanks for your understanding :)
@Krishna
ReplyDelete" and hence by your reasoning all Telanganites"
Oh wait, did you blame all telanganaites for the current situation ????? Did u ????? Damn it, i shouldnt have been so nice to you in my previous post
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteLook at it this way. If you have your own state, the people of Andhra will no longer have to byheart their newfound accounting bible (myteluguroots) and continuously keep fighting with Telangana people by quoting from the bible.
You must realize there is no emotional integration between the two cultures. And there never will be.
The question that every villager in Telangana is asking: "Why do they want to shamelessly live with us when we have no desire to be with them? Have they no self-respect?"
I think the break up would be easier if this opinion of Andhras is changed.
ReplyDeleteBut the problem is that you think that your sources are correct and others are wrong. And the Andhras also think the same.
Well said, but Telanganites will not agree to this as they are hell bent on running away with the booty called Telangana.
If that is not possible I think this problem will be delayed for a few more years and Andhras will start investing in other parts AP during that time. And a few years down the lane when the movement gets hot again Andhras will not feel cheated and will cut the cord eventually. Hopefully the first one works out.
Yes this will happen exactly the way you said it. Already lot of companies owned by my friends and relatives in Hyderabad are moving to Chennai or to SEZs in north. I just pray Hyderbad will not be made into rubble and dust before the last non Telangana person leaves this magnificent city.
Idler,
ReplyDeleteIn Sujai's words, "Many tanks in Telangana have disappeared because of lack of funds to maintain them."
You have to ask,
Are the lack of funds because the government did not allocate funds to tank irrigation in Telangana but did allocate to other regions? OR Was tank irrigation itself incorrectly considered an outdated approach and not looked into? Did Telangana leader emphasize more on canal irrigation (lift irrigation projects that take longer to implement and have low success rate)instead of focusing on low cost, faster approaches?
Here are the facts
"Telangana region suffered immensely because of the neglect of tank maintenance. However, one cannot lose sight of the fact that the Rayalaseema region suffered an even steeper decline of 66%, compared to Telangana’s 40% decline. Even if tank irrigation is restored to 1956 levels, we are looking at being able to provide water to nearly two lakh hectares of additional land."
There is no point in reacting in native language and showing emotions. We are trying to be grown up and rational here.
I just pray Hyderbad will not be made into rubble and dust before the last non Telangana person leaves this magnificent city.
ReplyDeletefear-mongering! I would be glad if SEZs move elsewhere. They are stealing poor peoples land!
People from other cultures would find it hard to adjust in Andhra cities which (would) reek of supremacism!
Aren't your own politicians not guilty and hand in glove of the current situation and hence by your reasoning all Telanganites?
ReplyDeleteAgain funny argument, instead of talking about your mistakes you are talking something else. Do you think the current situation will be different if our politicians ask about these matters but not the T people?
One more thing you need to remember, if we forgot/ignored( did we?) to ask our share of pie it doesn't mean it belongs to you. As per our constitution if you found money on street which is not belongs to you and you didn't surrender it in the police station, that means you are breaking law.
If you really want United Andhra then you must publicly apologize for your past/current mistakes and invite us for the talks, that will be the good start, but all you doing is denying.
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteYou didn't answer the question that needs answering. The people of Telangana have no desire to be with you. Why do you people shamelessly force yourself upon us???
You are making straw-man arguments.
If Rayalaseema lost cultivable land due to neglect, it is their issue and they need to fight for it.
Pointing out that there are other regions that were neglected is a straw man argument.
So, why the neglect of tank irrigation (be it in Telangana or Rayalaseema) considering this was the traditional way of irrigation in both areas? And they are not asking for NEW TANKS -- why were the tanks that were existing NOT MAINTAINED - which would be a pittance of the expense of canal irrigation?
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteThere is no point in reacting in native language and showing emotions. We are trying to be grown up and rational here.
Writing in telugu is not being grown up? Writing in telugu is considered irrational? WOW! ROFL!
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteHowever, one cannot lose sight of the fact that the Rayalaseema region suffered an even steeper decline of 66%, compared to Telangana’s 40% decline. Even if tank irrigation is restored to 1956 levels, we are looking at being able to provide water to nearly two lakh hectares of additional land."
I do not know the statistics, but personally what I feel is, you can stop funding to the tanks only after you show some alternatives to tanks. Otherwise what will happen to that farmer who depended on tanks for there farming?
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteYou didn't answer the current allocation of current projects:
"The inequality in the allocation of resources to Telangana continued even during the tenure of YS Rajasekhara Reddy. Of 26 projects contemplated to irrigate 59 lakh ha of land in the state, as much as 43 lakh ha will be irrigated in CAP and Rayalaseema, and only 16 lakh ha will be irrigated in Telangana."
If the jalayagnam was done faily, Telangana would get 10 lakh hectares more irrigated.
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteDecember 11, 2009.
A new GO by your Govt of Andhra Pradesh for rural road works.
Of the sanctioned projects worth Rs 130 crore, Rs 8.5 crore was allocated to the Telangana region. Only 8 out of the proposed 118 projects in Telangana were funded.
Now, where do you smell fairness in this?
Also, the calculations used in jalayagnam for irrigation:
ReplyDeleteAndhra - 1 TMC irrigates 3000 acres
Telangana - 1 TMC irrigates 33,000 acres
If we look at water being allocated, it is a LOT less than the land that they propose to irrigate.
@Sneha,
ReplyDeleteHere is the link for the news about the GO Rt No 1845 in case you need further proof http://www.thehindu.com/2009/12/17/stories/2009121755660600.htm
Please stop being in denial and start thinking subjectively. What would you have done if you were in our shoes? React in the same way ?? Make sure to check the reasonings given by Jai Andhra supporters (those andhrites who support for separate telangana) if you want to hear the benefits of an amicable separation. If you think we are blinded by telangana cause what do you have to say about Jai Andhra separatists ? For your information there are considerable number of them right in the heart of Hyd supporting the same.
Sneha,
ReplyDeleteA question for you on crop insurance ..
National Agricultural Insurance Scheme implementation in AP.
Following table shows district wise- region wise and year wise funds released from 2000-01 to kharif 2008 season by government in Andhra Pradesh.
Rayalaseema – 1871 crores
Coastal Andhra – 521 crores
Telangana – 169 crores
Premium is collected from the farmers of all districts equally and claim is given to farmers of certain regions which means beneficiary regions’ farmers are getting compensation out of pockets of other regions farmers!
Krishna
ReplyDeleteYou live in in this magnificent city Hyderabad, which is in magnificent region of Telangana region and yet you think you don't belong to this region. People who like this region may stay and other may leave no matter whether there is rubble, dust. Nobody will regret. There shows your loyalty to Hyderabad.
Idler,
ReplyDeletePeople from other cultures would find it hard to adjust in Andhra cities which (would) reek of supremacism!
I wholesomely agree with you that in general Andhra people have the unwanted air of supremacy. But wanting a separate state to fight against false supremacist egos is not a solution.
Sujai,idly sravan doras are going to rule telangana now after freedom from colonial zionist andra people.
ReplyDeleteBanchan dora kalmokta.
Kiran
ReplyDeleteIf you really want United Andhra then you must publicly apologize for your past/current mistakes and invite us for the talks, that will be the good start, but all you doing is denying.
I completely agree that great injustice has been meted out to Telanganites in every sphere of economic and cultural life.
Sujai and Idler,
ReplyDeleteVery strongly, I, support Telangana and we all will get it soon because all of our people need it.
Great work. I trulyg appreciate it.
Can you please let me know yours e-mail Id's if you don't mind. I am basically from Khammam, Telangana. doing my Ph.D in Chicago, US. my e-mail ID is dna.microbe@gmail.com.
@Krishna
ReplyDelete" But wanting a separate state to fight against false supremacist egos is not a solution. "
Firstly you should know the fact that we are not fighting for a state for ego reasons. Why do u repeatedly draw such flimsy conclusions inspite of all the explanation given above for a separate telangana state ??
" I completely agree that great injustice has been meted out to Telanganites in every sphere of economic and cultural life."
Really ? Do u really agree or is it that you've given up on the discussion like many of ur other friends. If u do agree then thank 'U'.
" But wanting a separate state to fight against false supremacist egos is not a solution. "
Now can you please let us know according to you what is the solution that you think would be feasible if a separate state is not a justified demand ? U will be awarded brownie points if you can atleast suggest a decent solution keeping in mind the fact that our state today is being ruled unfortunately by shameless politicians such as Chiranjeevi, CBN, Jagan and the like who flip-flop on issues as important as telangana like there's no tomorrow. They dont even keep up their word on the signed election manifestos that they came out before people voted....how do you think we can hold hope for a brighter future for telangana in such a pathetic situation
Vinay
ReplyDeletePeople who like this region may stay and other may leave no matter whether there is rubble, dust. Nobody will regret. There shows your loyalty to Hyderabad.
Firstly I am not from Hyderabad, but from Rayalaseema and hardly stayed in the city no longer than few months. All I am concerned is loss of major economic and cosmopolitan hub i.e Hyderabad to people from Seema region in particular.
Tirupathi,
ReplyDeleteI cannot back up your numbers (without the source)or give a reason as to why a decision was taken (I am not in the Govt). But insurance claims are usually given based on the level of damage incurred. Did you ask the questions before analysing the numbers just by the look of them?
NABARD funds are given to municipal and urban development and are proportional to the number of municipalities. Do you know how many municipalities are present in each area? What if a majority of the 118 proposals did not fall under the proposed plan for NABARD? Do you know if some funds were already given before this GO for the same reason and the govt is trying to balance the allocation in this GO? Isnt it flawed to look at just this number and react?
Amar,
ReplyDeleteWe here have solid statistics released by Andhra Govt, not some subjective news reporting. What are we talking abt!?
According to you folks Govt and Media are both filled with "devious Andhra people".
Then how come reports collected by Government dominated by Andhras is better than the Andhra dominated media?
That is why I say you choose your sources to that support your claim and trash the rest of them to be biased. That is why there is no end to this discussion.
Great news
ReplyDeleteI found this recent news about Adurs cinema release.
To release movie in Hyd
KCR is demanding 50 lakhs
OU JAC is demanding 50 lakhs
Manda Krishna is demanding 20 lakhs
vow Seperate Telangana (U dont need it u still can rake money)
http://thebollywoodactress.com/telangana-activists-are-blackmailing-jr-ntrs-adurs-release/
To rel
Great news
ReplyDeleteI found this news on the exiled online.com
Lagadapati agrees for Telangana after his negotiating with KCR on Lanco Hills project for 100 crores. Just waiting to see it on Sakshi channel and TV5 channel to confirm the legitimacy of the news.
Jai Telangana : A small correction.
ReplyDeleteThe state is ruled by Mr Rosiah, Sabita Indra Reddy, Ponnala Lakshmaiah and others from Congress party. Chiranjeevi, CBN and others are part of the opposition.
BTW, how is Idler doing ?
Srepen ..
ReplyDeleteJr ntr Adurs cinema release.
Watching a piglet (jr ntr) dance causes emotional distress and trauma. It would be funny if it were a cartoon. I believe the money will go into a fund for the trauma victims.
Here is a hypothetical scenario for all you Telangana fundamentalists who want to throw Andhras out of Hyd -
ReplyDeleteThere is a brilliant young man from heart of Telangana. He graduates from the one of the best engineering colleges in India, goes overseas and has a super-successful career. He learns all the critical business skills to suplement his brillinat engineering mind. Like a true patriot, he returns to his homeland and starts his own business in the Silicon valley of India (Bangalore). He hires best engineering and business talent from all over the country and his business is growing fast and doing great.
One fine morning, he happens to overlook a couple of kanndigas for executive promotions because he thought some other guys were more deserving. The Kannadigas strongly felt they deserved promotions because the company is in "their land" and outsiders are dominating and discriminating them. They threaten and blackmail the CEO to give them preferential treatment. The CEO says "but we are all Indians". They respond "Get the hell out of here, you dirty Telugu settler and go back to Hyderabad". Who is getting unfair treatment here? If you go by the logic of telangana movement leaders, the CEO is completely at fault.
Most of you in this blog probably live outside AP or India (at least have family members) How would you feel if you are asked labelled as an outsider after settling down in one place for many years. Please think about it before making insulting and derogatory comments on your fellow Indians.
Telugu Guy:
ReplyDeleteFirst calling “fundamentalists” is very irresponsible statement; second demand for “self rule” does not mean or link to throwing out!!!
Compare apples to apples don’t compare a corporate scenario with Govt/Politicians who repeatedly violated a contract, which is the primary subject of entire Telangana issue or problem.
Telangana folks are merely requesting to accept or bringing notice or awareness on couple of major points
1) Principals on which AP state formed i.e based on contract or certain mutually agreed arrangement.
2) How this contract had been violated repeatedly to suit the need or requirements of other regions.
Rather acknowledging these you are just beating around the bush…
Anand,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean by self rule? Aren't we already a free country, aren't MLAs and MPs getting elected from your regions?
Just because some TG politician does not become CM or get some important ministerial position mean that TG is denied self rule? So many reasons are given for formation of TG state, but none justified fully. First you guys say jobs are stolen from you, then water, then land, then language, then culture and now self rule. May be looks like you are going to say the fictional robber is yours too.
KrishnaR,
ReplyDeleteDemocracy is just mob rule. What it says is 51% can piss on the other 49%.
Current setup, Telangana has 119 MLAs out of 294 -- which never was and never will be a majority.
You should be the ones coming up with reasons on why there is a case for Samaikyandhra. Tell us, why Samaikyandhra? Why should we be united? What is this unity that you speak of?
KrishnR:
ReplyDeleteAll (Jobs, Land, Water etc) are part or subset of “Contract or Agreement” on which AP State was formed, when it is not honored or implemented in last 6 decades, other than self rule what other alternate you have?
Why contract was not honored or implemented, you can find answer in Idler comment.
Telangana people are fighting for “right(s)” whereas united slogan
is lacking clarity, we are all reasonable people here please give few or one good reason why we should be united…I am sure most of us here will put some serious efforts to understand and explore possibilities…
The question that every villager in Telangana is asking: "Why do they want to shamelessly live with us when we have no desire to be with them? Have they no self-respect?"
ReplyDeleteVillegers are dumb...just like you...
People of Hyderabad(exclude settlers) are asking same to you..don't you have self respect and shame...cheemu netturu leda?
depart AP in four parts...
Rangareddy state
Telangana State
Andhra and seema states...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous:
ReplyDeleteI guess when you say separate Ranga Reddy Dist I guess you are ref Hyderabad. Please check following which are self explanatory on why Telangana minus Hyderabad does not make sense….
http://sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/telangana-xix-hyderabad-union-territory.html
http://sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/telangana-xxi-status-of-hyderabad.html
In continuation to that just would like to add few technical challenges why Hyderabad cannot be made as UT or Sep State etc….
As we all know old Hyd in now called Greater Hyderabad (GH) i.e entire area in Hyderabad district, Ten mandals in Medak, 22 in Ranga Reddy, Four in Nalgonda and Two in Mahabubnagar district will fall under its purview.
Assuming we restore Hyderabad to old status and restore Telangana to old status i.e return all the mandals merged with GH to their respective districts.
Can you do that since?
Old Hyderabad ends at Punjagutta (may be to some extent in Jublee Hills ), the new jewel in crown Cyberabad (CDA), Airport Development Area (HADA) are in RR Dist, even the Genemo Valley, Nalsar, BITs are in RR Dist, entire ORR spreads in four districts; BHEL, ICRISAT, Tellapur Knowledge City, Central University, IIT are in Medak Dist.
New Infosys campus, Singapore city at Gatkesar are in RR Dist, Pharma SEZ is in Mahoob Nagar Dist, I guess even some portion of Ramoji films extends into Nalgonda Dist.
Also all the large stretches of farms houses (each 100 to 400 acres land) elite (entrepreneurs) of AP are spread/located in these districts, even the favorites spots some folks takes in pride Kukatpally and Dilsukh Nagar are in RR Dist…
So brother do you agree with formula of restoring mandals merged with GH to Telangana ???
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous of January 09, 2010 2:44 PM
ReplyDelete"Villegers are dumb...just like you..."
At least they speak Telugu, both parse-able and understandable by non-blind (non-deaf) ones like us. Please note, here Telugu means the language spoken in Telangana (TS) not the Andhra language as spoken in Andhra/Seema States (ASS).
I am from Hyderabad, after seeing your comment of this, I feel sad and depressed that a person like you, who cannot type well-formed English words, is co-existing in the capital city. No offences meant, I do respect the Urdu/Telugu/Hindi/'All-other-language'-tongued-Hyderabad-people, which includes me, a Telugu person, as well. I would have been happy had you typed in the Telugu content using the Telugu font.
"People of Hyderabad(exclude settlers) are asking same to you..don't you have self respect and shame...cheemu netturu leda?"
Come on, (in future) type the content either in English or Telugu (if so use Telugu font). If you do not know how to type in Telugu font, then please learn it, for it not only makes your intentions clearer but also helps others to know what is the point/logic in your argument.
On a gentle note, seems you are a dumb-deaf-retarded-all-troubles-in-one-soul-cum-body, for if Hyderabad splits away, it will not be having the status of a capital city. This implies no high court, no passport office (serving 3 crore+ people), APGENCO, Pollution board etc etc. Consequently, Hyderabad becomes, god forbidding, an insignificant (potential) state. Then especially for your kind of souls/bodies getting jobs will be difficult, because, since you lack English/Urdu/Telugu skills, your kind of people should work where such skills are not necessary. Since I believe in dignity of labour, examples of such jobs, with all due respect, are tea-supplier, tea-shop-owner, paper-boy, waiter/waitress etc. However, these jobs have a pre-requisite that you are good in basic arithmetic. But alas, since many offices (i.e high-court, passport office etc.) will become obsolete, even your owner's (or your own) business cannot survive till the break-even-point. I wonder if you know what this break-even-point means. Anyway, if you don't know it then learn it soon, because 'it is better late than never', then you can foresee how much a blunder this comment of yours is and was.
Also, on a logical note, to act (not like acting in cinemas), one needs not just just blood and serum (not pus) but also a conscious mind/brain. This quote "don't you have self respect and shame...cheemu netturu leda?" is a serious folly often repeated in Andhra films. Pus is an exudate signifying some infection.
"depart AP in four parts..."
See, though you claim to be a Hyderabad-resident (and having enough motor skills to type in English alphabet (assuming you are not challenged/special)), you lack the very vocabulary to input some content on-line. I get offended, because you are claiming to represent people like me. You are an ASS-corroborated human, so is your neighbourhood (i.e. your (grand/great-grand) parents, family, friends and/or teachers), for the water we drink in city is the sourced from Krishna in TS and for your information Hyderabad includes TS (or vice-versa). Enrich your awareness about the Hyderabad-living related facts.
To one and all arguing over 'Samaikyandhra' for no reason:
ReplyDeleteEra,... Manishivaa? Aandhroniva?
Okkasaari chepte vinipinchatle?
Mimmalni nammi memu mosapoyindi chaalu! Inkaa pommante povendi ra?
Telugu... Telugu ani tannuku sastaru seemaandhrollu.
Maaku meeto vaddu raa. Inke indlaki poyyi padukondi. Maa charitra meme raasukuntam. Meeru maa charitra raasindi chaalu, chulakana chesindi chaalu.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteI would like to commend you for the excellent and well written blog you have created in favor of Telangana state and bringing out Telangana issues well. After following this blog for over a month, I still think all the issues can be addressed well only in Samaikhya Telugu Nadu.
Two major issues that concern me for against Telangana state are one the state falling into communist and socialist hands thereby threat to private properties and growth.
The second issue is that of Hyderabad. Seemaandhra cannot part with Hyderabad since it is also their city in many ways as much as the city belongs to Telanganas.
Let's grow together unitedly making sure even the most economically and socially deprived section of people have opportunity to grow to the highest levels in this era of globalization and not left behind in the united state.
KrishnaR,
ReplyDeleteYou would never change your mind.
Behind all this drama of your concerns...
is the real estate speculator in you, who made investment(s) in Hyderabad to extract the most dowry.
I don't expect ANY of the Andhra commentors to support separate Andhra.
Your concerns are crocodile tears!
The only thing that bothers all of you is (1) possible asset depreciation (2) you don't want to call yourself belonging to Telangana, even though you settled here, coz somewhat you think its inferior, and would be become inferior by association.
We don't need people like you. Nor are we interested in your views.
For your analogy of "telangana growing only with united AP", is same as saying "you can only walk faster with a tree shoved up your ass."
So go shove a tree and start walking away from this blog. The sooner the better!
Krishna R,
ReplyDeleteJust like you strongly believe that Telangana can develop only in United Andhra .....
We guys STRONGLY BELIEVE that all your promises are deceitful... that all you guys care about is your own selves...
I have travelled the length and breath of the country... and even lived abroad for a little while... and here is what I have to say....
ANDHRAS ARE THE WORLD'S MOST SELFISH MOSAGAALLU. DONGALU. DAGAA KOORLU! NAMMINCHI AMAANUSHAMGA MOSAM CHESE PASHUVULU.
NEETI JAATI LENI KUKKALU.
I can sleep care-free under a tree in punjab, I can sleep care-free in tamil-nadu in the bus-station... I can feel safe even in Mumbai in mid-night.... BUT.... I DONT FEEL FREE WITH AN ANDHRA FELLOW MAKING THE LAWS. Every law, every GO, every rule... is all about making an ANDHRA GUY rich.
We dont need you guys making the lives of Telangana people more miserable than you've already made.
Govt. of India is watching. If they really care for their people, if supreme court knows its laws well, you guys will see TELANGANA in the near future.
Jai Telangana!
Jai Hind!
forget the percentage, forget the absolute numbers.
ReplyDeleteThe real measure is the absolute change in the numbers which is indicative of the infrastucture allocated to each region.
If you want to point out at the absolute numbers in 2001, you will have to point out the absolute numbers from 1956 too.
What you will then find is telangana was way backward compared to the rest of the state at the time of formation and has done well to cope up with the rest of the state.
What you ought to compare also is against other states with similar resources.
Remember the data should not fit your hypothesis, your hypothesis should fit the data.
Malgudi!
ReplyDeleteROFL!
I don't think he/she/it would understand your exquisite comment!
Anonymous at 2:44
ReplyDeletecheemu netturu leda?
If you go to Osmania hospital, you will find plenty of cheemu, netturu, gangrene and other stuff that you like. What do you wanna do with it? Eat it with chapathi?!
depart AP in four parts...
LOL! Ok.. departed AP in four parts!
freaky-y ..
ReplyDeleteIgnore the data. Your argument is a straw-man argument.
Both these arguments are logical fallacies (straw man arguments):
1. There are other backward places (rayalaseema/North Coastal Andhra).
2. Telangana has done relatively/absoutely better.
The position of Telangana is that there is misallocation of resources.
KrishnaR,
ReplyDeleteAfter following this blog for over a month, I still think all the issues can be addressed well only in Samaikhya Telugu Nadu.
Your Andhra brothers in 1948 with their supremacist attitude broke out from Madras Presidency.
If we look at the data, Tamil Nadu consistently ranks better on most indicators than Andhra. TN has always ranked in the top 5 states (sometimes #3), while Andhra has been associated with poverty.
That was foolish on your (Andhra) part, to break from Madras. Clearly, those guys have better brains than you and would have done a lot more for Andhra under Madras.
It is understandable why TN has done far better than Andhra. I mean, look at your brother commentors. All of them collectively have as much brains as a Garden Lizard.
The best thing for you Andhra people is to merge back with TN. They will rule you better. Don't try to do things beyond your abilities.
The TN people can make the same cliched dialogues that you make:
1. United we stand.
2. The second issue is that of Madras. Andhra cannot part with Madras since it is also their city in many ways as much as the city belongs to Tamilians.
3. Let's grow together unitedly making sure even the most economically and socially deprived section of people have opportunity to grow to the highest levels in this era of globalization and not left behind in the united state.
Hi Telangana Bidda,
ReplyDeletePoor baby, why are you so sad and frustrated? Let me guess, you must be chaprasi or watchman for a Andhra businessman? Or a lorry cleaner, based on your country-wide "safe-travels". What, the boss is not paying you enough? Dont worry, lick his boots real good and he will throw a few hundred at your face for Sankranti.
People like you give bad name to NEETI JAATI LENI KUKKALU. Keep crying...your pathetic little existence is not capable of anything better.
Hi
ReplyDeleteYou definitely have reformed some aspects of my thinking with your great blog.
I'm a guy whose family's roots are in seema but our family has been in hyderabad for 3 generations. So I consider myself a hyderabadi and telanganite.
Since you have written so well about the downtrodden and the rule of the unjust, I would like your comments and maybe a blog post on how telangana ruling classes(velamas and reddy's) have themselves undermined the region with their all encompassing greed.
ALso posts on how future of telangana looks with these people like to come to the fore again and play their version of politics which will prabably see them enriching themselves at the cost of all the dalits (BTW i'ma FC guy).
Will the dalits really get their quota of jobs under the new telangana rule ?
will we continue to abuse and discriminate them ?
will these ruling classes continue to suck peoples blood and the budget there by ensuring any fruits of development gets totally denied to the dalits ?
-Raj
Raj
KKrishna R:
ReplyDeleteAfter following this blog for over a month, I still think all the issues can be addressed well only in Samaikhya Telugu Nadu.
If you think the issues can be addressed in Samaikya Andhra, why isn’t a single Andhra politician or person committing to resolving the outstanding issues that Telangana is concerned with?
For example, why isn’t someone saying we will implement the Gentleman’s Agreement, the contract that we signed when we got merged? Why isn’t someone saying that GO 610 will be implemented right away? Why isn’t someone saying that the promised waters to Telangana will be given right away? Why isn’t someone saying that there will be fairness in budget allocation in various projects for different regions?
Nobody is saying that because Andhras are not actually interested in doing any of those. First, they don’t believe that Telangana was actually neglected or discriminated against. Second, they have no intention on rectifying that feeling of discrimination that Telangana people carry.
All the overtures from Andhra clearly indicate that they want to carry forward keeping Telangana in the state without having to change anything. That only means the neglect of Telangana is going to continue no matter what. That attitude is what bugs Telangana people the most and is right now uniting Telangana on an unprecedented scale.
Earlier the authors had to collect data and instances to show that Telangana was being neglected. Nowadays, with the media in place – both internet and television, an ordinary person in Telangana is able to see through the domineering attitude of any Andhra politician when he speaks or writes. After following few comments or few speeches of Andhra people and politicians it is almost impossible for any Telangana person not to support Telangana cause.
All your efforts on the media and blogs to oppose Telangana agitation are counter-productive. In fact, they are helping Telanganas to come out in mass protest in waves, united on a common cause. During the time of Indian Independence, a common man could not hear or read what British thought of Indians. If they knew, we would have got Independence quite early, and most probably it would not have been non-violent.
Today, Telangana people, who you think are dumb, naïve or foolish, is not ready to be dumb, naïve or foolish anymore. He abhors that characterization. He doesn’t need a KCR or TRS to become passionate about Telangana cause. All he has to do is listen for a while when an Andhra politician or agitator speaks up making a case for Samaikya Andhra. It sounds so hollow that only an Andhra person believes it. Nobody outside Andhra believes it.
You have completely failed to the actual concerns that Telangana people face. Instead you give us the following:
Two major issues that concern me for against Telangana state are one the state falling into communist and socialist hands thereby threat to private properties and growth.
Do you even realize how that sounds to a common man in Telangana? On one side, Telanganas are saying they don’t have basic stuff, like water, jobs and electricity, and you are coming back to show concern for ‘private properties and growth’, furthering their doubt that you have vested interest only in properties in Telangana.
The second issue is that of Hyderabad. Seemaandhra cannot part with Hyderabad since it is also their city in many ways as much as the city belongs to Telanganas.
Cities don’t belong to people of other regions. Cities belong to people of the region where it resides. Tomorrow, your capital city in Vizag or Vijayawada will attract many people from all over India and other countries. No amount of investment or immigration into your cities will make a case for others to take those cities away from you.
there was democracy in telangana. The leaders at T are responsible for the backwardness in the area. No leader(there were and still are many leaders of T area who held high positions in AP) ever complained before, no leader went on hunger strikes for water or education before.
ReplyDeleteHow can T ppl believe the same leaders will suddenly be responsible when there is a new state ? how can anybody be ? With maoists salivating at the potential breeding ground, the stakes are very high.
Even now, no leader is fighting for the backwardness, rather pushing the state further back.
@ Andhra Bidda
ReplyDeleteJAATI LENI KUKKALU
We are very well aware that you guys are caste supremacists and have committed heinous crimes.
@ Raj
will we continue to abuse and discriminate them ?
You should be more worried about dalits in Andhra.
Karamchedu 7 Kilometers away from Chirala of Prakasam district has 16 wards, out of which 8 wards are occupied by Kamma, the dominant caste people. They are possessing sizable number surrounding areas and are rich. The rest of the wards are inhabited by SC, ST, BCs. Dalits are in 16th ward. There are so many other castes in that village like Uppara, Muslims, Erukala, Yanadi, Mala and Madiga. Thousands of acres of land belongs to caste Landlords. Among them Kaggupati, Chaganti, Yarla Gadda, Perni, Manda, Puvvati are some of the popular Kamma families in the village.
All these dominant castes treat others castes less than animals. Sometimes they even used to beat, harass and kill them and throw the Dalits away quietly. Uppara, the B.C community fought against the Kamma oppression about ten years before the Karamchedu massacre. They were mercilessly attacked by kammas. Several community leaders tried to oppose the hegemony of upper castes. One among them is Venkateswarlu of Chundur, who is community leader and leader of working class. They harassed him and he came to Madiga Palle to hide himself. Kamma community asked Madiga people to handover Venkateswarlu but Madiga community refused their demand. Madiagapalle was ready to give their lives but not surrender Venkateswarlu. Kammas couldnt do anything and they went back but from that time, they had an eye on these castes.
After that they even attacked Malapalle but Madigapalle rescued them also.. Kammas anger further flared up. Dalits, both Mala and Madiga, tried to assert their againat attacks of Kamma community. On the fateful day 16 July 1985 Potina Seenu, Rai needu Prasad, belonging to Kamma. They brought their cattle to the village pond. They washed the ‘kuditi’ feeding bucket in the drinking water of Madigas. It was objected by Kathi chandraiah, a disabled person. The Kamma men tried to attack chandraiah but a woman, Munnangi Suvartha came in between to rescue him. She tried to lift her her water container to stop the attacking Kamma guys. That triggered and entire Kamma community took it as insult because a Madiga woman raised her hand against the Kamma guys. All 8 wards moved towards Dalit wada. Not one village but all Kammas of 7 villages armed with axes, sticks like serial killers entered on 17th morning to destroy 200 Madiga families. They attacked the palle, entered into field, didnt see whom they are beating and butchering, raped women, miles and miles they hunted. Maranakanda went on for hours. An inhuman killing spree that India never witnessed.. Eight persons were killed but Police identified only six. The dead bodies were also not shown to the family members. Police buried the dead bodies.
KrishnaR,
ReplyDeleteeven the most economically and socially deprived section of people have opportunity to grow to the highest levels in this era of globalization and not left behind
Don't worry. You will not be deprived of opportunities to help the economically/socially deprived section of people.
Rayalaseema (which if I remember correctly, is your origin) is also quite poor. You can work there to eliminate factionism.
And factions are much worse than the imagined threat of communists. If you don't know, read about peasant struggle against Nizam which was communist.
We know the plight of poor people in Rayalaseema. Our artists will
help you along ..
Rayalaseema factions - Gorati Venkanna
Be nice and do thank our Gorati Venkanna!
@ Anonymous at 12:07
ReplyDeletethere was democracy in telangana.
Yes, you've correctly identified that there was democracy in Telangana until we got forcibly merged with Andhra. It was a short period, after Nizam, until 1956.
I agree with all your allegations. Thats why we need our democracy back.
Anonymous: In this blog you can find answer(s) to any question(s) related to Telangana issue…to your latest question and as bonus please find below link related to Telangana politicians:
ReplyDelete1) Isn’t Telangana Movement a purely selfish interest of politicians in their attempt to secure power?
2) Didn’t TRS lose elections in 2009 clearly indicating there is no support for separate Telangana?
3) Why didn’t the politicians of Telangana fast for development instead of fast for separation?
http://sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/telangana-xviii-more-concerns.html
If you are still not convinced please read all the 51 comments or debates on above questions …thanks to Sujai.
Also check below, Telangana issue in state assembly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idaYx-0qdiA
"Sujai,idly sravan doras are going to rule telangana now after freedom from colonial zionist andra people.
ReplyDeleteBanchan dora kalmokta."
yeah ... that's why in HMTV Dasha-Disha at Tirupathi, out of 30 speakers, 25 were Reddys ... so much for social justice !
as if ppl. are protecting ppl. from Dorala pettanama in the name of Samikya Andhra !
25 were Reddys
ReplyDeleteNot just caste Reddy's, but lotsa other castes also started added Reddy tag. There was a dalit MLA from Hyd, who was a Reddy.
Also, Christians have Reddy tags.
Next, bulk of Reddy's and Kapus and so on are peasants and were the main cavalry in the war against Nizam/Doras.
The so-called doras don't live in villages, a large majority of them sold their lands after Nizam (they have little control over peasants!) and moved to urban areas. Quite a lot of them moved to US as well.
Finally, you are making a straw man arugment. I don't expect you to understand what it means.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteHMTV Dasha-Disha at Tirupathi, out of 30 speakers, 25 were Reddys ... so much for social justice !
as if ppl. are protecting ppl. from Dorala pettanama in the name of Samikya Andhra
You are an gross idiot (144 times worse than an ordinary idiot). Tirupathi is in Rayalaseema. And Reddy (prolly other caste too) factions rule there.
This has nothing to do with your allegations of dora. (besides it being a straw man argument as Idler pointed out)
Dear shit-for-brains: learn how to read maps!
I wonder why all Andhra people eoncontered on this blog have shit for brians!
eoncontered ==> encountered!
ReplyDeleteSneha:
ReplyDeleteWhat if a majority of the 118 proposals did not fall under the proposed plan for NABARD? Do you know if some funds were already given before this GO for the same reason and the govt is trying to balance the allocation in this GO? Isnt it flawed to look at just this number and react?
You are right. In all fairness, we cannot conclude there was discrimination done to Telangana based on single proposal. However, since we are accusing the government of Andhra Pradesh and Andhras that we have been getting the short end of the stick, why doesn’t someone from Andhra or Andhra Pradesh explain there have been previous proposals where Telangana got a lion’s share (thereby compensating for the minimal share in the current proposal).
We, in Telangana, based on prior record of how Andhras have consistently broken all agreements and misallocated our funds believe that such a proposal where Telangana got a lion share doesn’t exist.
You could dismiss our conspiracy theory. But we have enough instances to suggest that Andhras have colluded and hijacked state politics whenever they were pushed to giving a proper response.
Right now, when Telangana leaders are making a hue and cry about NABARD project, not a single Andhra politician cares to explain.
Sneha:
ReplyDeleteLooking at the actual TMC numbers, and counting only 75% of left canal (even though W Godavari which is at the tail end rarely gets the 25% water) Telangana still gets close to 40% of the water.
There are too many mistakes in the author writings.
First, how did Bachawat recommend Krishna water for Rayalaseema when no such arrangement exists? I couldn’t find any recommendation from Bachawat on how he wants to see Andhra Pradesh take care of its resources. Assuming what the author quoted is right about Bachawat, Telangana should still get 42% of Krishna Water vis-à-vis Coastal Andhra (58%).
The Left Canal feeds Nalgonda, Khamman, Krishna and West Godavari. The author conveniently forgot to mention Krishna in his document.
The author conveniently assumes that less than 25% of left canal actually reaches West Godavari (thereby dropping Krishna from the numbers). Going by the records of Water Resource Information System, Andhra irrigates 36% from Left canal while Telangana region irrigates only 64%.
As a net result, Telangana gets 30% of the Krishna water while Andhra gets 70% of the water. Compare this with the original premise of Bachawat which gives 42% to Telangana.
Isn’t that good enough reason for Telangana to protest?
Prof. Jayashankar might have given the number 25% because he is looking at much larger timeline than this author who starts his data only in 1997.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSneha,
ReplyDeleteI cannot back up your numbers (without the source)or give a reason as to why a decision was taken and other questions ..
Spoken like a true Andhra pilla. You want me to do your homework so you can take credit? LOL!
The onus is on you to prove why this is not unfair. Not me.
The source was given by Jai Telangana in a subsequent post:
Here is the link for the news about the GO Rt No 1845 in case you need further proof http://www.thehindu.com/2009/12/17/stories/2009121755660600.htm
Anonymous Andhra at January 10, 2010 1:06 PM
ReplyDeleteBanchan dora kalmokta.
Oddhu. Aa paykhana kadigi po chalu!
Addendum [10 Jan 2009]
ReplyDeleteThe author writes:
According to the Bachawat award, Kosta gets 366 TMC, Rayalaseema 122 TMC, and Nizam Telangana gets 260 TMC of water from the River Krishna. Readers might have noticed that the water allocation does not add up to 800 TMC—the remaining water is retained as a provision for evaporation.
I am not even sure if Bachawat recommended Krishna water for Rayalaseema. I couldn’t find any recommendation from Bachawat on allocation of Krishna water for Rayalaseema [I will read through the Bachawat Report once again]. Assuming what the author quoted is right about Bachawat, Telangana should still get 42% of Krishna Water vis-à-vis Coastal Andhra’s 58%. Right now, Rayalaseema doesn’t get water from Nagarjuna Sagar Dam.
Looking at the actual TMC numbers, and counting only 75% of left canal (even though W Godavari which is at the tail end rarely gets the 25% water) Telangana still gets close to 40% of the water.
In reality, the Left Canal feeds Nalgonda, Khamman, Krishna and West Godavari. The author conveniently forgot to mention Krishna – which takes up 35% Left Canal. The author also makes a wrong assumption that less than 25% of left canal actually reaches West Godavari (while dropping Krishna from the numbers). Going by the records of Water Resource Information System, Coastal Andhra irrigates 36% from Left canal while Telangana region irrigates only 64%.
As a net result, Telangana gets 30% of the Krishna water while Andhra gets 70% of the water. Compare this with the original premise of the author about Bachawat which gives 42% to Telangana.
Professor Jayashankar purportedly wrote:
Nagarjuna Sagar meant to benefit Andhra and Telangana regions equally is modified in such a way that 75% of the benefit is accruing to Coastal Andhra reducing the share of Telangana region to just 25%.
Prof. Jayashankar’s might have given the number 25% (instead of current calculation of 30%) because he is looking at much larger timeline than this author who starts his data only in 1997. Going back in time, it is clear that discrimination was pronounced and therefore 25% of share for Telangana seems plausible.
I found some good information at: Telangana Marginalised
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Telangana+Marginalised&artid=OKTUQjBLHQA=
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Raj/Anonymous of January 10, 2010 11:19 AM:
ReplyDelete"You definitely have reformed some aspects of my thinking with your great blog."
I assume this sentence is addressed to log owner. But, since I am not the log owner, I, being a contemporary commentator after reading this comment of yours,doubt the magnitude of reformation you have undergone. This doubt wouldn't have arose had you applied the term 'transformed' in place of 'reformed'. This itself hints of hysteresis in your reformed frame of mind/body.
"I'm a guy whose family's roots are in seema but our family has been in hyderabad for 3 generations."
Good to know this.
"So I consider myself a hyderabadi and telanganite."
Thanks. Stay determined.
"Since you have written so well about the downtrodden and the rule of the unjust, I would like your comments and maybe a blog post on how telangana ruling classes (velamas and reddy's) have themselves undermined the region with their all encompassing greed."
Are you not trying to drift away from the topic of this particular post of log-owner. But anyway, I give you a secular answer, if not a democratic answer.
You know something called 2/3 rule in our Parliamentary/Assembly (PA) affairs. So an application of Modus ponens to the disadvantages implied by this rule gives a logical answer to your current speculation. Anyway not to let you draw any incomplete and/or unsound interpretation/s, I give a simple model based on the so called monotonic reasoning in first order. If you want/insist, then I could also give a second order model as well, which will be a higher order interpretation of this first order model. In what follows, the model is illustrated. This model is based on the very recent injustice towards Telangana.
Do you know the particulars of the recent GO numbered 1845? If not, then the details are here:
GO Nr. 1845
Dated:11/12/2009
Title:NABARD – RIDF XV – Administrative sanction for 118 works
Order status: Issued
Category:PANCHAYAT RAJ AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT
Try to find this GO at http://ap.gov.in or http://goir.ap.gov.in
If you are in hurry, the numbers in this GO are summarised in one news item published by the daily news paper 'The Hindu' web-portal. Here is the URL for this item 'http://www.thehindu.com/2009/12/17/stories/2009121755660600.htm'.
As Idler ideally points, understanding the injustice in this GO does indeed demand some arithmetic skills. Anyway for your ease I provide a snippet from this news article, which goes like (enclosed between a pair of triple asterisks):
***He said that the State government had issued GO Rt No 1845 dated December 11, 2009, allocating a whopping 103.53 crore to the Andhra region for taking up 94 works such as laying of roads and construction of bridges.
Region neglected
On the other hand, the Rayalaseema region was allocated Rs. 16.77 crore for taking up 15 works and the backward Telangana region was allocated only Rs. 9.31 crore for taking up of only eight works.***
So this has been done for over 5 decades. Do you expect the T-rulers do magic with a feeble funding? The allegation (you made or asking the log-owner to expound upon) of undermining the Telangana State/Region (TS) by the TS-originated-rulers (TSOR) might have basis if and only if (iff) any project (destined to TS) gets approved in P/A. The above GO itself demonstrates that how TS (i.e, 'the region' you refer to) is denied its share for decades.
"Also posts on how future of telangana looks with these people like to come to the fore again and play their version of politics which will prabably see them enriching themselves at the cost of all the dalits (BTW i'ma FC guy)."
Of course, future would be far better because TS will have its own budget managed by staff who are not partial/biased. So to elaborate further, I take the above GO as an example, based on population TS will get a proportional share. By the way, can you expand what the acronym FC stands for.
@Raj/Anonymous Continuous ...
ReplyDelete"Will the dalits really get their quota of jobs under the new telangana rule ?
will we continue to abuse and discriminate them ?
will these ruling classes continue to suck peoples blood and the budget there by ensuring any fruits of development gets totally denied to the dalits ?"
The answers are embedded in a Times Of India news article located here 'http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Anti-Telangana-group-develops-caste-cracks/articleshow/5341968.cms'. By the way, if you are not convinced with this news article, then, if you know the concept of invariance, all these questions' answers will remain invariant to the TS becoming a new state in the Republic of India.
A gentle note about the news articles cited by me:
The references are provided to convey the point. If you know the concept of example and exemplification, these articles should be taken as the example for the concept being exemplified. So please do not try to quote the irrelevant points from these articles, if any, for an example/citation exemplifies/conveys a concept and not otherwise. If you do not understand the very basics of exemplification, then please read some advanced philosophical texts like Yoga Vasishta.
Idler, Murali Manohar Rao
ReplyDelete"Finally, you are making a straw man arugment."
your comment shows you didn't really get the gist of the comment made. it was addressed to the person who made the comment on Dora system.
hope atleast Sujai got the point;)
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteSince you have written so well about the downtrodden and the rule of the unjust, I would like your comments and maybe a blog post on how telangana ruling classes(velamas and reddy's) have themselves undermined the region with their all encompassing greed.
I do have some concerns in that direction. Right now, the struggle for separate state of Telangana has not taken a shape that I would like to see. Where reforms and commitments are made to ensure there is proper and better representations of lower castes and minorities in politics.
In fact, the fact that Telangana was a extremely feudal in composition means that the power will be taken up by upper castes and landlords. I don’t see a change happening in that direction though I would like to.
I wish Telangana goes on a drive to bring in land reforms. But I don’t see anyone talking about that.
Having said, bringing water, education, employment and opportunities will in itself have a significant contribution towards uplifting lower castes and minorities in Telangana. When Telangana and Andhra merged, Andhra had three positive things going on for them. British transformed Andhra by better irrigation projects resulting in better yield for farmers, education system, and most important, land reforms.
More water, better irrigation could bring economy to an Indian village rather than concentrating it in cities and towns. This will empower the people who reside in villages who happen to be mostly lower castes. Better education and more employment could also result in empowerment of lower castes. Reservations based on caste and minority religions will help.
Over a period of time, I see that Telangana will also go through a huge class revolution. I would like to see that combine with creation of Telangana, but I can wait.
The above commented is for Raj.
ReplyDeleteComparing agriculture of Telangana with Coastal Andhra is a bit too high! even sujai knows that to provide water to irrigation in Telangana region would need high level Capital investment as well as high coast maintanance for Lift irrigation, to dig a canal a JCB is enough in Coastal andhra and no lift irrigation required as the altitudes ranges only 100ft constantly and the soil is totally different from deccan plateau, varies in Telangana Lift is Must! as it makes agriculture a considerably coastlier than in Coastal Andhra farmers will not make profits out of it as well as Govt will not get any returns out of it.
ReplyDeleteto bring water from Jurala which is around @ 1000ft to Wanaparthy which is around 1600ft one need to pump water almost 600ft high, you cant make profit farming rice, cotton etc..again formers will come out to streets and demand for supportive price from Govt.
brining isreal etc into this context will not workout..its India and we have to improve agricultural standards! untill then even a seperate New State will not dare to provide water on the expense of lose!
Sujai knows it very well still he uses water issue as another cause for Seperate State hood since he cannot demand it on basis of his ego was hurt by some jerks from Andhra!
region left to Nagarjuna sagar dam raises from 600ft to 1000ft varies region right to the dam decreases 200ft from 500ft again to provide 50% share of Left bank requires Lift irrigation! whatever change taking place in water share is because of Difficulties but not purposeful. farming Cocaine will solve the difficulties.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteComparing agriculture of Telangana with Coastal Andhra is a bit too high! even sujai knows that to provide water to irrigation in Telangana region would need high level Capital investment
We were not asking AP government to do anything that was not already planned and discussed. The project plans are in place for most irrigation projects for Telangana, they were not carried out.
Also, we don’t want to listen to a list of excuses why irrigation in Telangana is not as easy as it is in Andhra Pradesh. We want a separate state so that nobody tells us anymore that it cannot be done in Telangana but can be done elsewhere.
When a separate Telangana is formed, they can’t do irrigation anywhere else but in Telangana.
Sujai knows it very well still he uses water issue as another cause for Seperate State hood since he cannot demand it on basis of his ego was hurt by some jerks from Andhra!
;-)
I like your way of trying to get to me. You have to try harder than that.
Krishna R:
ReplyDeleteFirst you guys say jobs are stolen from you, then water, then land, then language, then culture and now self rule. May be looks like you are going to say the fictional robber is yours too.
The sticker on Telangana Stickers says it all: Jobs, Water, Electricity, Self-Respect.
When a separate Telangana is formed, they can’t do irrigation anywhere else but in Telangana.
ReplyDeleteYes, they are doing where ever possible! and we are not talking about existence of irrigation but improvement of irrigation which in my opinion will not change even if new State forms..
I would expect your arguement should be like if you are seperated you are forced to use your share of water even on the expense of lose which is not possible in United Andhra pradesh...something like as long as Indian professionals are available US guys wont get jobs...since indians available cheaply!
but dont portray conspiracy out of it to create hatred to gain strong support!
test
ReplyDeleteTelugu_Guy:
ReplyDeleteHere is a hypothetical scenario for all you Telangana fundamentalists who want to throw Andhras out of Hyd -
Here is a true scenario for you. Telanganas don’t want to throw out Andhras out of Hyderabad. However, if you continue your agitations to stop creation of Telangana, then the animosity will definitely increase. Do you really want that to happen? I don’t want that to happen.
Kannadigas strongly felt they deserved promotions because the company is in "their land" and outsiders are dominating and discriminating them.
Private companies and government don’t work the same way. Employment in government, education in a government school, are considered basic amenities that a country or state should provide to its people as a duty.
Having said that, I am completely OK to put a regulation that says that at least certain number of employees even in a private company should be coming from the state where the company resides. That will proactively reduce the cause of tensions that we currently see in cities like Bangalore.
They threaten and blackmail the CEO to give them preferential treatment. The CEO says "but we are all Indians".
While you are talking of ‘merit’ why stop at Indians? Why should the CEO hire only non-Indians? Even countries like USA do not allow that unless you make a case that you have already tried your best to find an American to fill that position but could not and hence you went around finding non-American. And this is coming from one of the most capitalist societies in the world.
Most of you in this blog probably live outside AP or India (at least have family members) How would you feel if you are asked labelled as an outsider after settling down in one place for many years.
I would feel bad but then I would understand why that has come about. Right now, most Gujaratis and North-Indians are not the butt of such an allegation. There is a reason for that. Once the separation happens, everyone will forget where each of us comes from.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeletebut dont portray conspiracy out of it to create hatred to gain strong support!
If after repeated protests, demonstrations and agitations, the state of Andhra Pradesh does not implement those projects, what should we conclude?
@malgudidays
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you have the time to try and "educate" me. Thank you for pointing me to some literature.
Right now I'm working 16 hour days trying to get a start up company up and running as a founder. When I do have some time I'll be sure to check up on these things.
Just to let you know I have Former president Radhakrishnan's books on hindu philosophy gathering dust in my library for the past several years. I'll be sure to add yoga vasistha to my reading list.
-Raj
Sujai
ReplyDeleteNobody is saying that because Andhras are not actually interested in doing any of those. First, they don’t believe that Telangana was actually neglected or discriminated against.
Yes I agree that there have been some lapses in implementing certain GOs and taking note of the problems Telangana is facing. It is sad that politicians need be woken up violently often enough to tell them about failed promises regarding Telangana. But what I see is that at least some of these politicians have woken up and are thinking to achieve fair evenness in development across regions. Indian polity is still young and we are still learning as we go on how to run governments and allocate resources.
Dasa Disa discussions telecast on HMTV are defiitely right step in that direction.
Some comments by Yerram Naidu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIpDH6JfL-I
Krishna,
ReplyDeleteMany of the promises have been blatantly violated. 'Lapse' is definitely not the word for it. If you look at the Gentlemen' agreement, every guideline there was violated. The politicians were given a violent wakeup call many times.
I would not believe that any of the politicians have realized their mistakes. They are just trying to get through this by twisting and turning their tongues in all the directions. They put chameleons to shame and reached sub zero credibility levels.
I would be happy if you give an honest answer to this question. Do the Telanganites still need to believe these politicians will respect the guidelines and be in the united state?
Yerram Naidu was in the committee which did an extensive research on Telangana and made a decision to support the Telagnana state. How come his thought process was entirely changed in a day? I can counter all the points made by him in the speech. He is using sentimentality to back his argument. How is he convincing any Telanganite?
"I am not even sure if Bachawat recommended Krishna water for Rayalaseema. "
ReplyDeleteGo to THE REPORT OF THE KRISHNA WATER DISPUTES TRIBUNAL WITH THE DECISION VOLUME II
page: 188 list the AP demands and the allocations given, there you will find projectwise allocation, you can find whats given for Rayalasema..
I if you dont have the report you can download it from here: http://www.archive.org/details/KrishnaWaterDisputeTribunalAwardVolumeIi
Dont give statements as though you read it before you do...
To Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIt is clear from what you have cited is that AP state ill-represented Telangana over Andhra region in providing project plan that are propsed or underway.
If telangana separates as per the catchment area criteria Telangana gets more TMC of water. Bachawat tribunal only considered the catchment area of AP in allocating water to the state. If it considers Andhar and telangana as separate then equations will grossly change.
So it is evident that Andhra regions gained lot as part of AP at the loss of telangana.
Since Bachawat tribunal is already expired and a new tribunal has been constituted telangana as a separate state would definitely benefit.
Andhra water share although more than the actual share(as per the criteria) would remain status quo given the fact that the projects for their benifit have already completed.
So it is in the best interest of Telangana and Rayalseema that AP should be split into three states.
Oops sorry, I correct myself. I am wrong about this Krishna water comment, Sujai coul dyou remove this post of mine dated
ReplyDelete%January 13, 2010 2:25 AM%.
Sravan thanks for correcting me.
It is better to separate out now , if the majority of Telangana people want to (don't know how to measure this) rather than create more development in telangana and then having to separate later.
ReplyDeleteSujai, your numbers on irrigation are wrong in places. Will post the correct figures one of these days.
Irrigated acres from Nagarjuna sagar
ReplyDeleteNalgonda 3.81
Khammam 2.76
Krishna 3.70
WGodavry 0.02
Guntur 6.68
Prakasam 4.44
Total 21.41
"don't know how to measure this"
ReplyDeleteSeems you are lacking something here. In Telangana, we are taught that numbers are counted not measured. With all due respect to teachers and schools in Andhras/Seemas, have they taught you to measure the quantities that instead require counting?
"WGodavry"
ReplyDeleteYou mean what?
Irrigated acres thru projects:(in lacs)
ReplyDeleteexisting ongoing planned
Teln 26 19 24
Andh 44 10 8
Rayal 23 10 16
Srvan,
ReplyDeleteyour quote:
"If telangana separates as per the catchment area criteria Telangana gets more TMC of water. "
I think you need to read the tribunal report before giving the criteria..
If we apply your criteria then Karntaka & Maharastra will be getting more water than AP.
This is how Maharashtra applied your criteria:(Volume II page:152)
Maharashtra ...... 908 T .M.C
Mysore . . . . . . . 865 T.M.C
Andhra Pradesh ....... 427 T.M. C
Karnataka's view:(page:174)
Maharashtra . .. . 540 T.M.C.
Mysore . . .. 976 T.M.C.
Andhra Pradesh . . . 544 T.M.C
But the actual allocation is:(page184)
State of Maharashtra : 5 6 5 T.M.C.
State of Mysore . . 695 T.M.C.
State of Andhra Pradesh: 800 T.M.C.
So now you need to ask why the have come up with this criteria and for that please read through the report...
And also dont think the Tribunal didnt consider abt Telangana..
Following is the quoter from (page:177-178)
"The State of Andhra Pradesh, no doubt, has been
allocated enough water for historical reasons, but
still Telangana part of the State of Andhra Pradesh
stands in need of irrigation. The area which we are
considering for irrigation formed part of Hyderabad
State and had there been no division of that State
there were better chances for the residents of this area to
get irrigation facilities in Mahboobnagar District. We
are of the opinion that this area should not be deprived
of the benefit of irrigation on account of the
reorganisation of States. If properly managed, Jurala
Project Stage-I can operate by utilising about 18
T.M.C. We, therefore, think it proper that 17.84
T.M.C. of water at 75 per cent dependability should
be allocated for Stage-I of the Project.
"
"Suppose in region A you start with 1 acre and add 2 acres to it, it is seen as 66% increase. But in region B you start with 100 acres and add 50 acres, it looks like only 33% increase."
ReplyDelete@Sujai
Whoever taught you math, if they saw your calculations would hang themself. In which school, do they calculate percentages like this?
Based on your example, A would have had 200% increase and B 50% increase.
Yes , going from 1 to 3 is a better achievement than going from 100 to 150. Growth depends on what one had and where it started.
"Percentage increase is an extremely flawed statistic" - Really, you think so. By your logic, US is growing faster at 1% currently (because they are 15 trillion $ in GDP, their net increase would be higher) whereas India is growing slower then them at 7% (because they are at 1 trillion $ in GDP, their net increase would be lesser compared to US). Think about it.
Please learn some basic math before you throw out statistics.
@ 166, KTN:
ReplyDeleteBased on your example, A would have had 200% increase and B 50% increase.
You are right. It was a mistake. I admitted it in the comment @31 but forgot to correct it in the post. Now, I have corrected it.
By your logic, US is growing faster at 1% currently (because they are 15 trillion $ in GDP, their net increase would be higher) whereas India is growing slower then them at 7% (because they are at 1 trillion $ in GDP, their net increase would be lesser compared to US).
In the same comment @31, I write the following:
"Usually percentage increase help on an incremental basis seen on regular intervals, when all parties concerned are considered to be more or less equal or competing partners (like GDP one year-on-year basis or profit growth for companies on quarterly basis)."
Why Telangana Praja Samiti (TPS) could not get T-state despite getting people's mandate with 10 out of 14 MP seats.
ReplyDeleteAt that rate they could have won 80+ MLA seats in Telangana in following assembly elections.
It is a fact that TPS merged with Congress and SOURCES say they 'hoped' Indira Gandhi will meet their demands.
What happened afterwards?
Why there is no 'udyamam' for 30 long years?
What happened to Telangana Regional Council?
Who has administered, monitored or negotiated with state govt w.r.t implementation of agreements?
...
...
No! please don't answer anybody. Try to answer yourself.
Chances of T-state are higher today compared to previous 'udyamam'.
I don't see any opportunity for others to stop it.
Chidambarm and Madam's coterie are eager to split this state on some basis or the other. This is best chance for them.
If at all, at all T-state does not happen please stop abusing other regions.
This time at least, please go and ask your own elected representatives.
I am sure they will plead helplessness and lobbying by other regions.
The tone of these people including KCR is different after 5th January.
Nearly two months and madam has not uttered a single word confirming T-state.
Yet every single congressman claims 'High command telanganaku kattubadi undi'.
TDP playing Sakuni role. They want to avenge the attack on Nagam.
They are abetting constitutional crisis so that President Rule will stop all agitation.
After his 'diksha viramana' KCR said he knew that T-state formation started in Delhi.
He also said it is 'Arrow that left bow'.
Now he says 'we will continue struggle until T-state achieved' and maintaining strategic silence.
What is the need for struggle, if Delhi has started the process a month ago? Why one more deadline?
Most important question now is
In case Telangana is not formed, can Telanganites bear the MORAL DEFEAT?
Today all those who want Telangana have developed hatred against other regions and abusing them to the worst possible.
Needless to say, it is VICTORIOUS ARROGANCE.
What happens to these people? What if settlers laugh at these people?
Someone may say the same about settlers. I think they have at least some excuses.
The central government should show some sense and settle the issue ASAP.
With every passing day, the gap between people is widening and state's image getting damaged.
The basic thing you missed is the geographical altitude of Telangana, which is in general a plateau - part of the Deccan plateau. The Godavari runs deep down some hundreds of feet down and the gravity line is not conducive for canals. That is why tank irrigation was considered and is the best possible way too. Every area has its own geo-climatic peculiarities and the development patterns are sketched or ought to be sketched according to those peculiarities and potentialities and possibilities. I mean resources too. Telangana rich in minerals is more conducive to development of industries and rightly now it stands in forefront on the industrial front in the entire Andhra Pradesh. But you cannot expect it to be so advanced in agriculture too in contrast to delta areas which are as a sort of specially cut out [natural] pieces for agriculture. Borewells indiscrimiately dug have ruined the water table of Telangana and aping other regions, and when failing in such efforts blaming them for the impasse, has caused incalculable damage and will work a havoc in future too. I assert Telangana has progressed very much under the united State compared to the abominable oppression and poverty during Nizam's rule. There may be some injustices during 1956-2006 also but such can be found with regard to the people of Rayalaseema and backward areas in Andhra too. So no point in crying for separation. The best interests of Telangana demand continuation of the present unity with better arrangements for regional autonomy and also Telanganites can and should lead the entire Telugu people towards a better future.
ReplyDelete"As of 2003, only 10.1% of Telangana land is irrigated, while a total of 23.3% of Coastal Andhra is irrigated. [Calculated from Water Resources Information System, Government of AP.]"
ReplyDeleteWRONG!
All the bloggers here have to know the truth .
T A R
Forest area%–28.07———19.86—–22.8
Irrigarea%—– 40.62———–54.65—–30.38
percapitabank
credit——— 361.85–17079—610.96—-285.38
Literacy——- 57.03—-79.09—62.5——60. 65
Just go to the following AP govt official website.
http://www.aponline.gov.in/Quick%20Links/APFactFile/info%20on%20districts/Districts.htm
Add up all dist data and take avg.
By
FACT SEEKER
FACT SEEKER:
ReplyDelete"Gross irrigated area as % of gross cropped area "
IS NOT same as % irrigated out of TOTAL AREA.
Do you math once again - this time add up total irrigated area and then divide it by Total area.
River Water Politics in Drought prone areas of Telangana
ReplyDelete- Full PDF article from Economic & POlitical Weekly 1997 that shravan mentioned in the 2nd comment
http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/pmcd3
I thought you were smart but you just blew my minds off with your haughty remarks that Bachawat Commission on Krishna Water doesn't specify Rayalaseema and to top it you say you've read the report cover to cover.
ReplyDeleteRead it again if you really did and the allocation to KC Canal System,Tungabadra Lower and Upper Canal,Gajuladinne etc and add up the total presto there's your Rayalaseema allocation that skipped your intellect magically, somehow.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteNice work! Have a look at mine...
http://theopenterrace.blogspot.com/p/telangana.html
currupt politicians and bunch of other losers from both the regions are out to kill this GOLDEN GOOSE called HYDERABAD(post 1980).Rational people from both the regions regions realize this.
ReplyDeleteDear Mr Sujai,
ReplyDeleteIf somebody wants ‘Separate Telangana’ first, and if then he start finding reasons later and he will find everything done to the region is ‘WRONG’.
The irrigation system of ‘Krishna-Godavari Delta’ was developed in year 1852 by ‘Sir Arthur Cotton’ with 2 Barrages, the ‘Doweleswaram Barrage’ and ‘Krishna Barrage (Presently called as Prakasam Barrage)’ without a single lift irrigation system and a single meter lined canal. A ‘Barrage’ is a simple and much cheaper structure in comparison with a Dam.
This was possible only because of the ‘Topographical features’ of the ‘Krishna-Godavari Delta’ where you will find a Plane surface and where you cannot find out a level difference of ground with naked eye.
Now install ‘Goggle Earth’ on your computer system, and find out the Ground levels at different locations of ‘Telangana’, and the bed levels of Godavari and Krishna Rivers and tell me where it is possible as on today for ‘Canal irrigation system’, where water can flow by Gravity.
When you see ‘Statistical Gimmicks’ in Nalamotu Chakravarthy’s narrations, why can’t the ‘Statistical Gimmicks’ of pro-Telangana narrators are visible to you. Prof. jayashankar excludes Hyderabad from Telangana when he talks about the ‘Educational and Health facilities’ of Telangana to show them less, and includes Hyderabad in Telangana when he talks about the revenue to the state government to show the revenue high.
Prof. jayashankar doesn’t counts the Regional level Osmania University located in Hyderabad as Telangana university, but adds the ‘Sales and Commercial Taxes’ of Hyderabad as Telangana revenue.
If I continue discussing the falsehood narrations of pro-Telangana writers it will be of many pages. Please try to think on your own.
Thanking You,
-Shanthu