Plebiscite in Hyderabad
When I said that there can’t be any plebiscite in the city of Hyderabad to decide its future, some commenters interpreted it as a sign of Telangana’s fear or cowardice. If I challenge Mike Tyson for the title of World Heavy Weight Boxing, and if Mike Tyson fails to hold a match, then I have an option to believe that Mike Tyson is afraid of fighting me. But then I would be suffering from bouts of self-aggrandizement and self-delusion.
The only reason why a plebiscite cannot be held in a city is because cities in India are not treated as distinctly different from their regions. A region is a collection of districts and cities. Gates of cities are opened to all kinds of people to come in and live. But that does not mean the city dwellers will now start believing they can somehow escape the outcome of regional politics. If cities in India are given an option for plebiscite then all of them would show their disenchantment with the regional politics and would like to opt out. If that happens no region would like to build cities in future because they will lose out eventually.
A demand for plebiscite in a city does not make a case. If there is no response it is a result of common sense, not because of fear or cowardice.
The offensive T-word
An MP from Andhra, Purandeshwari, was commenting on Samaikya Andhra agitation on TV yesterday. This is what she said: [Translated from Telugu]
Since I was a little kid, I always learnt I was a Telugu. I never learnt I belonged to Andhra region or Rayalaseema or.. (pause) any other region...
She couldn’t say the word ‘Telangana’. It has almost become an offensive word like F-word that we don’t normally use. The whole charade of Samaikya Andhra is quite amusing to me. Never do they say anything about Telangana. They don’t mention the word ‘Telangana’ and they don’t talk about it. They only talk about one person – KCR, as if he is Telangana.
One sided love story: Tu hain Meri Kiran
During 1990s there was a movie released called Darr starring Shah Rukh Khan who is obsessively in ‘love’ with Kiran (played by Juhi Chawla). The sad part is that Juhi Chawla does not love him back. So Shah Rukh Khan goes after her like a mad man. He sings:
Tu Haan Kar, Ya Na Kar, Tu Hain Meri Kiran [Whether you say YES or NO you are still mine]
That’s how Samaikhya Andhra is wooing Telangana. They are forcing themselves onto us when we are completely over them. This one sided love story is becoming a little bit suffocating for Telangana.
In the beginning Juhi is still sympathetic to this obsessive lover. But over a period of time she starts hating him and eventually the whole one-sided love affair becomes quite violent. That’s what is happening in Andhra Pradesh now. Samaikhya Andhra people are becoming violently in ‘love’ with Telangana; and are not letting them go.
Andhras and British
When I wrote that British left India on a good note in my previous post Welcome the Change, some Andhras got offended by such a comparison. Some asked if such a comparison was warranted. Here I explain.
Though British build Indian Railways, Indian Administrative Service, Post and Telegraph, and installed democratic institutions, judiciary, rule of law, and built the cities of Kolkata, Mumbai and Chennai, and build Lutyens Delhi, British did not claim any of these when they had to leave India. They didn’t intend to carry any of them with them when they left India. Their exit was graceful because they didn’t play any such antics.
Unlike British, Andhras are making this separation really messy by clamoring for Hyderabad claiming they have built the city.
Andhras had a miniscule contribution to development of Hyderabad and yet they make a claim to the entire history as if their insignificant contribution in taxes and investments actually makes a case. Even if there is any contribution, it is easily compensated by the loss Telangana endured because of this union in the last fifty years. Telangana people believe that they have lost more than what they have gained because of their forced association with Andhras.
Are small states really bad?
Some detractors warn us that as a separate state Telangana would not be able to improve or develop. Just take a look at the examples of other small states that have broken up from their mother states.
Here is an article from Times of India, 20 December 2009:
Amazingly, all three new states have grown fabulously fast. Uttarakhand has averaged 9.31% growth annually, Jharkhand 8.45%, and Chattisgarh 7.35%. All three states belong to what was historically called the BIMARU zone, a slough of despond where humans and economies stagnated. Out of this stagnant pool have now emerged highly dynamic states.
The one things i donot understand, is when u make up numbers and bullet points you remove hyderabad from it to make the numbers so weak
ReplyDeletebut then u say hyderabad cant be remove from telengana or a UT or a shared capital or a seperate admin'd state.
is it that thing called hypocrisy or the other thing called oxymoron ism.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI became a BIG fan of your writings.
ReplyDeletecan you email me your personal email id, where I can contact you and be in your network.
Telangana, RELIGION AND ATHEISM are some of favorites..
Suresh Veeragoni
http://www.esnips.com/user/rahmaniac
http://geekswithblogs.net/microsoftian/Default.aspx
How can you say that the contribution of people from Andhra is minuscule. You tend to quote numbers for your statements. Can you quote any numbers for this statement?
ReplyDeleteI can say that the rest of the AP have an equal share in the development of Hyd
1. When Central Government established so many industries in Hyd, they were trying to generate jobs "in AP not in Hyd". So when Andhra MPs go and ask central govt as to what they did for the state they would show the industries they established in Hyd. So they cannot demand more. So that means the rest of the state lost out on central Govt investment because the Central Govt concentrated on Hyd. So people from all over AP have indirectly contributed to the development of Hyd.
2. All these industries prospered with the brains from various districts of AP. And as you said in your other post Telengana was greatly uneducated due to the negligence of Nizam rulers. So obviously most of this brain power came from rest of the state, not from Telengana.
3. Apart from this a lot of private industries were established by people from rest of the state in Hyd. They couldn't establish them in rest of the state as Hyd was becoming center for industrialization and all the intellectual power was in Hyd. This cumulative effect is seen any business.
ya wat about the sacrifice of kurnool. it was the capital :(
ReplyDelete@ Suresh
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Suresh, Sujai is an awesome writer, personally i am a big fan of his blog..
i dont agree with some of his thoughts though ...
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYes when Central govt established industries in hyderabad they established it for whole of AP and not just for andhra.
AP is not synonymous with jsut 9 districts of Coastal andhra.
Well alrady the jobs are taken up. SO from nowonwards if at all Central govt. establishes any in hyderabad it is for those in telangana or may include two or more state depending on its own discretion and requests of other states. So it is not a really big worry/ Isn't it?
Yu specifically mentioned CG and you shuld already know thatGO 610 and Mulki never applied to those kind of jobs.
Take it easy
your argument is not in sync with what you were trying to prove(How can you say that the contribution of people from Andhra is minuscule and I can say that the rest of the AP have an equal share in the development of Hyd) please reconsider if you want to put this question of CG somewhere else.
All these industries prospered with the brains from various districts of AP. And as you said in your other post Telengana was greatly uneducated due to the negligence of Nizam rulers. So obviously most of this brain power came from rest of the state, not from Telengana
But telangana including hyderabad lost lot other things and opportunities because of the bureaucratic suppresion of educated andhra. So that what I assume sujai meant when he said compensation. Education and Knowledge are not just an asset to improve once own property but gives you immense resonsiblity to share it with those who are by force or necessity unable to achieve it.
Apart from this a lot of private industries were established by people from rest of the state in Hyd. They couldn't establish them in rest of the state as Hyd was becoming center for industrialization and all the intellectual power was in Hyd. This cumulative effect is seen any business.
Telangana people provided subsidies and their lanf for these people to establish industries and had to close their already established industries on this process on the hope of getting livelihood from them. This they never completely achieved instead had to leave their own property and lands. telangana water osurces which most of the history were manemade tanks were completely destroyed by pollution. If anybody prospered with what you said are those who established industries in Hyderabad. In this course other cities and regions of telangana lost their importance completely. Would you compensate for all these now?
[i]ya wat about the sacrifice of kurnool. it was the capital :([/i]
ReplyDeletethis is another illusion created besides Potti Sriramulu's sacrifice being made for formation of A.P
Request you to come out of this illusion ... Kurnool has not been sacrificed for Hyderabad ... administration was being run from tents when Andhra was newly formed (Kurnool also has got a name because of this) ... whereas Hyderabad already had the infrastructure facilities to run the government ... so who sacrificed for whom is pretty clear
Sravan,
ReplyDeleteYou didn't get my point about CG establishing industries in Hyd. As in all states the government concentrated in developing the capital city. So instead of establishing a BHEL in say Mahboobnagar or Anantapur or Vijanagaram they established it in Hyd. So the all these people's share went to only 1 city, which is Hyd. So all these people have their share. So I don't understand why you say that my argument is not in sync with what I say.
And it is just not the share that gave they gave at that time, you have to see the cumulative effect on the development now. People tend to establish where there are already other supporting industries and knowledge pool.
And don't say that Andhra people suppressed, those from Telengana. My dad retired as a GM at one of the Public Sector companies in Hyd. He or none of his friends ever could help anyone they know to get a job at their company. It just didn't work that way. I cannot say the same about state govt jobs as I don't know much about how they work. But from whatever I know some of my relatives used political power to get transfers to their home town but never a job!
And your last paragraph about Telengana people giving up their lands for developement of Hyd is just argument against developement of cities. I think you need to take to some other forum. You can see one of Sujai's older blogs that he greatly supports this kind of land grabbing from government. I think you should take your argument to that post. And also I am sure you would have heard of a lot of poor peasants becoming rich due to the sudden development of Hyd lately?
Dear Mr. Sujai,
ReplyDeleteI'm extremely sorry if my ideas hurt you. But I feel you're using wrong reasons!
You are extrapolating your case to very abnormal examples to prove your point.
Comparing AP with British is little too much, even conceding the fact that Telangana has been underdeveloped.
Britishers never identified themselves as one amongst us and their sole reason to stay here was to loot this country to serve their motherland. Now, its too far-fetched to relate this to the present context. We belong to the same country, & the riches of Hyd have not been stolen to be invested elsewhere..Most of the money has been invested here back thereby making it even bigger. If you continue to make such extrapolated comparisons, how can people be at peace! I sincerely appeal to you not to make the error of treating Britishers and Andhrites in similar vein.
You're cleverly twisting facts to suit your purpose. Hyd was nowhere as popular till late 1990s. Previously we had to face the misfortune to be labelled as Mardrasis. After late NTR the situation started to change. Hyd was put into national fame only after Chandrababu Naidu began to develop. In 1980s Hyd was nowhere in picture & frankly didn't attract much attention at all, our own film industry was settled in Chennai, only through conscious decision did all settle back in Hyd. You are very much wrong in treating settlers from other states to settlers from Andhra in the same vein. We beg to differ. We're not migrants. We're merely settling into our state capital.
There is no altruism among men. Accepted. Andhrites ultimately did benefit out of it. But you say that the contribution was muniscule which is unacceptable. Until Andhrites began to settle in huge numbers & began business big way, Hyd was merely a historic city. (Sorry, I mean no disrespect here, I wish to point only through mass collaboration development takes place)The local population treated Andhrites like brothers and through this, both benefitted eventually. US advanced rapidly because brains from various countries mingled and brought out their best. So is the case with Hyd.
You speak as though this agitation has been taking place continously since 1969. Apart from few incidents there was no such developement at all. NTR's election plank of Telugu-pride resonated in 1980s fabulously, making it amply clear that despite some injustice most were reasonably satisfied with united AP.
"Cities in India are not treated as distinctly different from their regions." Quite true. My own contention is that why limit "region" to Telangana alone, to belongs to AP as whole.
Madhav
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. This is insanity at its peak to accuse Andhra people for their selfmade misery.
I request Sujai to refrain from spreading such miss information.
I have been watching few news clips on Pakistan and what their government is feeding their childeren. Its indoctrinating its people that the terrorists attacks on their country are executed by India. In fact they were fighting their own Taliban brothern reluctantly.
We can try this. once the dust is settled down. Andhra Pradesh capital must be moved to a city in Andhra for next 5 years and then to another city in Rayalaseema for the following 5 years and then we must bring back to Hyderabad after 10 years.
This will give chance to people in Telangana to understand what it is like to have capital of their state in another region.
To Madhav,
ReplyDeleteIt is clear from your view point that you are not aware of historical facts and even if aware you are too much focused on present than past.
If you can really check some of the articles written in pre-independence you will see that the society then accepted the british as authority and that is why they were urging this authority to impose self rule. Not until 1931 there wasn't any resolution by INC or other major players back then that a resolution of Complete Independence was taken. Before that it was only about obtaining more power to locals and not to have british thrown out of the country.
So when we look at the past after years of education glorifying our Independence Movement and its leaders many may feel exactly like you. But I would definitely say that during those ages it was not exactly that and most people considered british as authoritarian figures to be looked at with some due respect. Or else how could thousands of indians take up govt. jobs under British govt.
You said andhra people benefitted from coming to hyderabad. That's what matters here MAdhav. Telangana people were not given chance to get benefitted like andhra people. If this is wrong then we wouldn't have seen people fighting today.
Well BHEL was established in Hyderabad then so were Hindustan Shipyard, Vizag steel Plant, SHAR and many more in Andhra.
Very few telangana people were able to get jobs in those places but Andhra people dominated in hyderabad even though it was located in telangana.
I never misused facts Madhav but you are jsut looking telangana only as Hyderabad but infact hyderabad is only a small region in large telangana.
sravan
ReplyDelete"Telangana people were not given chance to get benefitted like andhra people"
who is giving chance here and who grabbed the change?
Andhra people worked hard despite such reverse reservation insanities like mulki rules.
With all the mulki rules in place Telangana people have progressed at a much faster rate than Andhra people in Hyderabad.
Who is stopping Telangana people from migrating to Vizag and work in Steel factories?
Madhav,
ReplyDeleteLaws of Iminent domain provide govt with the authority to take over private lands for development. But it is usually done to benefit the people of the region. Not just for someone who is migrating. On the contrary the people of the region had to move away completely to far off places with out bearing the fruits of development whereas those who have migrated are now bear all the fruits of development.
As most of the people have been saying that City means no the land but people i would like to stress here that It is 100% correct.
And I would also stress that Developing city does not just mean industrializing, buliding roads or other infrastructure but more importantly improving the quality of life of the people of the city.
Do you know what happened here?
Telangana people who were living around the city were forcefully relocated in the name of developing the city and were replaced by a new kind of people who migrated from andhra region, who were also given jobs in the newly developed region to achieve a higher quality of life.
So what happened here is people living with low standards were replaced with people of higher standards to show development.
Whereas actual development means improving the low standards of local people.
Please clearly understand what development really means when you make such comments. It is true that hyderabad is now known as developed but people who had been living there for centuries, who actually made the city are still underdeveloped.
To Blue Shift,
ReplyDelete"Andhra people worked hard despite such reverse reservation insanities like mulki rules.
With all the mulki rules in place Telangana people have progressed at a much faster rate than Andhra people in Hyderabad.
Who is stopping Telangana people from migrating to Vizag and work in Steel factories?
It is really disgusting to see that you have not changed a little bit since I have seen your first comment.
Was this not we were trying to explain to you that none of the rules that were laid down to safeguard telangana people were implemented?
And you come up with this question now!!!
Friend,
ReplyDeleteAfter looking at all this mess, I've come to believe that seperation is the best way out not necessarily because of the agitation.
Already there's so much of hatred at ground level. Even if for argument's sake if accept that Telangana is not formed, it will soon assume monstrous proportions in future causing even more hatred and loss of men & property... This is ill-advised.
Its certainly not advisable to live in the same home with mutual suspicion and hatred...Far better we stay in seperate homes and talk friendly.
I still have hope that just like our Ugadi pacchadi, this will merely remain as a small sour-ness and sooner we shall unite atleast in spirit as fellow Telugus! Blood brothers might seperate but their relationship can never be disowned!
One last comment on personal note..About your fav quote - "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crises maintain their neutrality."- Alighieri Dante
I feel being neutral is after all not desirable. What can be a neutral between milk and poison? In any mix, it is poisonous. What perhaps is more desirable is being "independent"..we oppose certain things and supports certain others, but not because of any personal bias..We seek to be independent of all bias and decide to think for ourselves! Hence with all due respect to Dante, I feel that being independent is more desirable than being neutral.
"trying to explain to you that none of the rules that were laid down to safeguard telangana people were implemented?"
ReplyDeletewere not implemented? They were in place till 1975.
Now you want to bring back these rules?
I think capital city must be roated.
Sravan,
ReplyDeleteWell BHEL was established in Hyderabad then so were Hindustan Shipyard, Vizag steel Plant, SHAR and many more in Andhra.
Very few telangana people were able to get jobs in those places but Andhra people dominated in hyderabad even though it was located in telangana.
Try establishing the Shipyard in Hyderbad! And it was anyway there since before Independence.
The steel plant wasn't even set up until the mid 1980s. And check out where the ore comes from.
You cannot even start comparing the industries in Vizag and Hyd. And I am also not talking about the rest of AP vs Telengana. I am talking about Hyd vs rest of AP. Hyderabad was developed with a lot more investment than any other place in AP, be it in Telengana or any other place. This unfair concentration of industrialization robbed all the state of its industries.
And also you said the people of Telengana couldn't go and get jobs in places like vizag. Why couldn't they do it? They were central or state govt jobs that anyone can get into. Don't try to play the suppression card. I think they couldn't get in because there were "no industries" in rest of AP(including Telengana).
wonderful blog.
ReplyDeleteWe can easily infer from the comments made by Andhras..They insisted on merging just for Hyderabad and now they do not want to let go Telangana just because they want Hyderabad,otherwise I don't find any love towards fellow telugu people in their words except for the greed and rude behaviour.
@Sravan
ReplyDeleteHyderabad is what it is today because of people migrating from different parts of AP/India. Without the influx it would have been much different.
Don't say Hyd was already #5 in 1956 and also #5 now. So no progress in Hyd. Please live in the present.
If not for the influx it would have been just like Vijayawada or Vizag #50 in the country.
Looking at your comments I can only see that you are here to spread the hatred..
@Sujai,
ReplyDeleteI thought your blogs were fair and addressed the actual issues.
Instead you take a side and keep supporting it.. one blog after the other.. you just present things from one angle and are not in a position to take feedback.
Anyhow, I have got to know some new things from your blog.
Thanks,
~We
Anonymous,
ReplyDelete"Try establishing the Shipyard in Hyderbad!"
It is not at all possible to establish shipyard in Hyderbad because of the lack of seaboard.
So you know the possibilities of establishing the industries right!
The sameway other industries were established in hyderabad because of the nature of the city and its infrastructure. Well do not say that because of being a capital it wa given preference.
First of all it was made capital because of its infrastructure. Is it not true that the strongest reason for andhra to join telangana was to use hyderabad a capital. Do not say that the industries and other infrastructure improved pos-unification is just because of the will of andhra people. It is because they saw the opportunity to settle in hyderabad which the telangana people have given them by joining andhra.
Ofcourse they hoped they would be given equal importance and being locally present they expected considerable utilization of the capital for their development. But this never happened for them where as andhra people who were not local but came later bettered their lives very much.
You can see this difference today very easily if you look around in hyderabad.
You may again say that if not for andhra people whether hyderabad would be in this position?
Who Knows ? and Why not?
Hyderabad because of being the largest city in whole of deccan is definitely an attractive city for investments.
But now andhra people stubbornly believe that they are the reason hyderabad is a world class city. But it is otherway around. Hyderabad provided them with the opportunity to utilize its infrastructure to invest in busineess and industry.
I am sure the same people who think they developed hyderabad will move away to another city if some calamity strucks the city and is no more profitable.
Please don't say that you have helped telangana people by making hyderabad a developed city. You developed yourselves.
You cannot compare only hyderabad with rest of the andhra pradesh but you can only compare the whole of telangana with andhra.
In that case it would be very clear that andhra is several times more developed than telangana.
closing down Nizam Sugars, Azam Zahi Mills, BDL and many such industries in districts of Telangana is also part of the development we got ... now don't say they were running in lossess
ReplyDeleteand what hatred ppl. are talking about ... has anyone slapped anyone in the last 50 yrs in the name of Telangana ... do you know how it feels to listen to comments like "We taught you civiliztion, we taught you how to eat ...", "You don't know to speak properly" even from educated ppl. ?
problem is ppl. have misunderstood goodness and patience for weakness ... and now since it's in the open, they are taking it as hatred which is not true
it's better to be divided and be united rather than be united and get divided !
We,
ReplyDeleteJust like you have been trying to prove your opinion as correct Sujai is firm on his opinion. This is not a news channel and Sujai is not an editor to stay neutral on his opinion.
He indeed tried to weigh the points on the both sides of the argument several times in his blog.
IF you think you are not able to convince others with your argument you may try to rethink again of your opinion.
Do not blame sujai for that.
It was you who focussed on a hyderabad which us internal issue of telangana where as the whole issue was on separate telangana state.
We,
ReplyDeleteijust wanted to correct you.
Hyderabad was #5 back then but it is #6 now. Please check the facts
We~
ReplyDeleteCan you please cite some of my comments which you think are to spread hatred and not facts?
I would like to correct my self and if true would duly apologize.
Thanks in advance
We~
ReplyDeleteOfcourse hyderabad is what it is because of different people migrating from all over AP/India.
This is nothing to do with being as part of AP. Evne if we were separate people would have migrated anyway. Because being the largest city in deccan and 2nd largest in S.India it provided good opportunities for industry and employment.
Vamshi
ReplyDeleteExactly we can infer from this blog that Telangana people only want Hyderabad and not intrested in developing rest of Telangana as they claim. Telangana backwardness, nizam history etc are just a ploy to grab Hyderabad from the rest of people in Hyderabad.
Greed and rude behaviour can be seen clearly in Telangana leaders words.
there is a saying in Telugu "thatini thanne vadu vunte vadi thala thanne vadu vuntadu" ... so self-check needs to be made when using words like greed and rude behaviour
ReplyDeleteMadhav:
ReplyDeleteComparing AP with British is little too much, even conceding the fact that Telangana has been underdeveloped.
The comparison may not be apt in all respects – like British were a ruler class, while Andhras were not. I am talking about the way they let go of India when it came to letting go of it. I am talking about taking credit for few things when in fact whole of Telangana feels they were deprived of many things.
But you say that the contribution was muniscule which is unacceptable. Until Andhrites began to settle in huge numbers & began business big way, Hyd was merely a historic city.
Some of us have a different opinion on this. We believe Hyderabad starting grow in 1990s because of liberalization policies of India. And if it were not for Andhra settlers it would have been Gujarati or Tamil settlers who would have invested. Intel, Cisco, or IT may have invested in Bangalore, but to give them credit for its development which in turn would be equated to claiming the city is little far-fetched. If not for those companies, someone else would invest in Bangalore. They have come here because it made business sense, that’s where it stands.
The local population treated Andhrites like brothers and through this, both benefitted eventually. US advanced rapidly because brains from various countries mingled and brought out their best. So is the case with Hyd.
No denying migrants and settlers always contribute the cities. That way, even Telangana people who have moved from districts to the settler can be called settlers. But these settlers should understand that the fate their city is intertwined to the region they belong to. At a continent level, their city may belong to Asia, at country level to India, at state level it belonged to Andhra Pradesh, and at region level it belonged to Telangana and at district level, may be to Ranga Reddy. When the state is split along the regional lines, Hyderabad goes to Telangana. All the settlers, including those from Telangana have to accept it.
You speak as though this agitation has been taking place continously since 1969.
People of Telangana believe that a mood for separate Telangana always existed, even if there was no overt movement. If you look at various organizations that were formed in the last forty years, it doesn’t look like it has erupted all of a sudden.
Moreover, no movement exists continuously. If it is snubbed, it takes time to revive itself. Gorkha Movement may look like discontinuous to you, but not to the people of Gorkhas. When it was suppressed in 1980s, I have never seen anything on the news or read about it. But for people of Gorkhas, it was kept going. The fire was never extinguished.
If you look at India history of Independence, you see many lulls. But each time came back it came with bigger force than before.
When in 1990s I told a friend that we will get our Telangana, he laughed. He said there was no such a movement. That it was a pipe dream. That it was dead. That it was just a figment of my imagination. But the ground reality was very different. There were torch bearers who woke up others to see what was going on around us. There were rallies once in a while. There were protests once in a while. Just because the mainstream media didn’t report it doesn’t mean it existed.
Many non-Telugu people didn’t hear the word Telangana till twenty days ago. Does that mean Telangana didn’t exist?
Madhav:
ReplyDeleteI echo your sentiments. The current agitations on both sides – the riots, the bandhs, the fasts – it is better the states are separated as soon as possible. There is no need to part hating each other. Both the state will continue to have so much in common. No matter what, Telangana people will continue to see Chiranjeevi and his son’s movies.
We have a shared history of fifty years and much longer history in the distant past. We should live as good neighbors.
~We:
ReplyDeleteI thought your blogs were fair and addressed the actual issues.
The slogan on this blogs reads:
The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crises maintain their neutrality- Alighieri Dante
I take a stand on issues. On Telangana, I stand clear.
Instead you take a side and keep supporting it.. one blog after the other.. you just present things from one angle and are not in a position to take feedback.
In another blog, titled Where do I stand, I write:
“I have chosen to take a stand on serious issues. Therefore you will not see me writing two sides of a story here. If I believe there are two stories to an issue, I do not write about it.”
You will easily know where I am coming from. Here are few more quotes from that post of mine which I wrote more than 2 years ago:
“Instead, I have defended other things, such as: A man's right to fight for his homeland and to fulfill his aspirations to form an independent nation or state.”
“On a more general note, I have always believed that it is the duty of the majority and the privileged to accommodate minorities and underprivileged to create a harmonious society which in turn would benefit the majority and privileged on the longer run.”
Just so you know:
“I do not pander to the sentiments of my readers. I am not bothered if they go away from this site never to return. It is not my attempt to boost my readership like TOI.”
“Also, I am not here to engage in a lively debate. I am here only to express my opinions. If you make sense I would be glad to read yours. If you write nonsense, I am going to call it nonsense. I am NOT going to be politically right about that.”
"Though British build Indian Railways, Indian Administrative Service, Post and Telegraph, and installed democratic institutions, judiciary, rule of law, and built the cities of Kolkata, Mumbai and Chennai, and build Lutyens Delhi, British did not claim any of these when they had to leave India. They didn’t intend to carry any of them with them when they left India. Their exit was graceful because they didn’t play any such antics. "
ReplyDeleteIncredibly appalling, you are talking as if Brits did us a favour. chaduvukunna vadi kante chakali vadu melu ani oorikine analedu.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIncredibly appalling, you are talking as if Brits did us a favour. chaduvukunna vadi kante chakali vadu melu ani oorikine analedu
That is what sujai wants to portray here. Brits did not do any favor and they knew it.
But many andhra people(not all) and the person sujai was addressing, carry the opinion that they developed hyderabad on their own efforts and money and that is why they are reluctant to let telangana go, likethey have done it as a favor and not for their own means.
It may be appaling to you but it is I feel a good analogy(may not be exactly similar)
To anonymous,
ReplyDeletePlease try not to use such archaic sayings that may seem to be offending people of certain demomination in today's scenario.
Sravan,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all it was made capital because of its infrastructure. Is it not true that the strongest reason for andhra to join telangana was to use hyderabad a capital.
You still don't get the point I am trying to make. If each of the districts of AP were separate states each district would have 1 big industry. Instead we were a single state. So government tried to put all its investment in one district, Hyd. Or even in this one state, if government concentrated on developing all the districts, a plan to break up the state into based the district boundaries would have been fine. Because everyone got their fair share. (On a side note I would say even in that case, stay together to get lobbying power)
It would have been a different story if the central govt listened to Telengana people and not joined it with the rest of the state when AP was first created. But we have traveled too far together to breakup the relationship now. Everyone has invested too much for the development of 1 city.
What infra structure did HAL need to be established in Hyd? What did BHEL need? Industry and skilled labor were so scarce in Hyd that they had to do everything in-house. From there it has come to this stage not because just because telengana people gave their land. It is because of everyone's efforts. These industries were one of the first industries in Hyd. Vijayawada which is well connected via railway was not selected to establish the industries, Vizag with it's shipyard was not selected(except for shipyard ofcourse).
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteSeparate state is not for a few investors . Anyway these people are not going to loose their investments if telangana separates.
Separate state is for backward telangana people to attain political responsibility which they have been lacking as part of AP and the week support they have been getting from the govt of AP.
So you are looking from the perspective of some investors but the whole point is about millions of telangana people looking for a political change in their region through which they are hoping to get better.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou still don't get the point I am trying to make. If each of the districts of AP were separate states each district would have 1 big industry. Instead we were a single state. So government tried to put all its investment in one district, Hyd. Or even in this one state, if government concentrated on developing all the districts, a plan to break up the state into based the district boundaries would have been fine. Because everyone got their fair share. (On a side note I would say even in that case, stay together to get lobbying power)
Whatever, it is the failure of the govt. of AP not push central govt to establish in other parts of the state. Not of telangana. Even if we separate we can still be on friendly terms and maintain lobby at the center. Its not cout every one got fair share. Still telangana lacks severly in infrastructure and development and Andhra is a very developed region which means your assumption that develpment happened only in hyderabad is wrong.
"It would have been a different story if the central govt listened to Telengana people and not joined it with the rest of the state when AP was first created. But we have traveled too far together to breakup the relationship now. Everyone has invested too much for the development of 1 city.
Ofcourse but telangana lagged in this journey where as andhra gained so much. Sorry telangana people does not want to continue this journey anymore as they see do not see any hope if things are running this way.
"What infra structure did HAL need to be established in Hyd? What did BHEL need? Industry and skilled labor were so scarce in Hyd that they had to do everything in-house. From there it has come to this stage not because just because telengana people gave their land. It is because of everyone's efforts. These industries were one of the first industries in Hyd. Vijayawada which is well connected via railway was not selected to establish the industries, Vizag with it's shipyard was not selected(except for shipyard ofcourse).
May be you are comparing these two cities with hyderabad which was and had been always larger, bigger and popular than these two. Any means these two cities were never comparable with Hyderabad. If comparable then they would have been the capital of Andhra State and the andhra govt back then wouldn't have eyed hyderabad state.
Do not say they are not developed. They are very much developed and on par with the other cities of India which after independence had same stature as these cities. Where as other telangana cities for example Warangal which was more or less on equitable status with Vijayawada immediately after Independence, under went severe industrial and economic retrogression.
What infra structure did HAL need to be established in Hyd? What did BHEL need? Industry and skilled labor were so scarce in Hyd that they had to do everything in-house. From there it has come to this stage not because just because telengana people gave their land. It is because of everyone's efforts. These industries were one of the first industries in Hyd. Vijayawada which is well connected via railway was not selected to establish the industries, Vizag with it's shipyard was not selected(except for shipyard ofcourse).
I already said you cannot compare Hyderabad with Vijayawada and Vizag by any means. They were very small compared to hyderabad after independence which was by then already a cosmopolitan metro.
They had their share of industrial investments adequately and some times greater than their actual caliber
"It may be appaling to you but it is I feel a good analogy(may not be exactly similar)"
ReplyDeleteeh? right! non-telanganites plundered Hyd just like the Brits, great analogy indeed, and the new Telangana state Govt. should make this a mandatory lesson in their 5th grade history books.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou are not inferring the analogy in a proper way. This analogy is not about the general view people carry about Brits. It is strictly pertaining to the Brits not saying that they haven't done any favor by building whatever things you already said previously.
The British were an occupying force in a colony they developed and exploited. People from Andhra and Rayalseems migrated to an intra state city and became invested in the city. But Andhras are not an occupying force; they have merely developed and expoited Telengana. The issue of Telengana is legit. Some non-Telengana cultural attributes are despicable. My 2 paise on this issue.
ReplyDeleteSujai,
ReplyDeleteWhen you mentioned the article from TOI about smaller states, the following is something that you conveniently ignored "Both states have ample minerals like coal and iron ore. But this was not an economic advantage when they were part of larger states. Rather, their mineral revenues were diverted to state capitals. This diversion ended after they became separate states."
This diversion of funds to state capital caused the development of Hyd. So it belongs to all the state, not just from some people who lived there.
And even if Telengana is formed that is what is going to happen, all the money goes from all districts into Hyd.
"migrated to an intra state city"
ReplyDeleteand that intra state city happens to be the state capital. Going by your "exploitation" logic (for whatever it's worth), Delhi natives should decry exploitation of their region by non-delhiites
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteIn you posting "Status of Hyderabad"
you said That money is collected from people all over India. If Andhras can claim the city just because they paid taxes, should all those Indians living outside Andhra Pradesh also get a part of Hyderabad now?
That is exactly what the rest of the country can do if Hyderabad wants to be a separate country. As long as the revenues from the rest of the country help build Hyd and Hyd gives back that money as revenue again to Central Govt everyone is fine.
And also I repeat "The central govt said that it was investing in AP when it invested in Hyd. If Hyd was not in AP and govt invested in Hyd and said we invested in AP, that that wouldn't make sense. And MPs would have said no you didn't invest in our state."
This is the reason we need to be together.
For the record, making Hyd a UT is also not a viable idea. That is the defensive mechanism that people from rest of AP are using. Everyone from all over AP invested their share in Hyd and every one should get their returns. If everyone is not getting the returns then fix the system! Not only the people in the villages of Telengana, even the people in villages in rest of AP are not getting the benefits of developing capital city. The development should be distributed across the state and country. If not it will be like cart on wheels of different sizes. Here the only big wheel is Hyd, rest of AP are the short wheels. The short wheels invested so much in the growth in the big wheel now it has to get its returns.
The economic and political development model has to be fixed. Just breaking up the state doesn't do. After break up this uneven growth is going to repeat all over again not only in Telengana but what is left of AP.
Fix the system not break it! And be model to the rest of the country and world.
Peace and Development to all.
Cooperation ain't gonna happen. Breaking the state into manageable homogeneous parts is the first must do step towards fixing the systems.
ReplyDeleteAndhras had a minuscule contribution to development of Hyderabad and yet they make a claim to the entire history as if their insignificant contribution in taxes and investments actually makes a case.
ReplyDeleteAmazing how so many commentators here are so certain about this, with zero substantiation! Lets compare Hyd with Lucknow, capital of a state bigger than AP. Lucknow is much older than Hyd with great history and culture. It probably was the richest city during its hey day. But so what? There is a funny Telugu saying, Maa tatalu netulu tagaru, maa mutula vaasana chudandi!! Its economy lags much behind Hyd today.
Can you name 1 industry that was there during independence and is still existing today? Much of the economy of today's Hyd is created after independence by the enterprising and hard working people of AP with significant contributions from people of Andhra and Seema regions.
Can you name 1 industry that was there during independence and is still existing today? Much of the economy of today's Hyd is created after independence by the enterprising and hard working people of AP with significant contributions from people of Andhra and Seema regions.This is no way opposes the formation of telangana with hyderabad as capital.
ReplyDeleteThis no way proves that telangana people suffered under the majority andhra legislators and andhra bureucracy domination at secratariat levels.
Is it not true that telangana leaders never had their voices heard in a majority andhra legislature?
This is not the time to discuss who did what?
It is time to see the reality which clearly shows that telangana has been grossly marginalized in water and employment resources. With out the formation of separate state this inequalities cannot be removed.
It is for the betterment of telangana people that a separate state formation is needed. Not for the benefits of already rich politicians and businessmen of andhra.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSujai, Sravan... please stop responding to commentors. They are numerical illiterates, unable to compare numbers and see Telangana is screwed every way possible.
ReplyDeleteThese idiots come with read-only brains with a set bias. They do not come here with an open mind. None of the commentors 'views' can be changed by facts, numbers or logic. These are not knowledge-motivated, nor truth-seekers. With their heads so high up their asses, they would not discern logic - even if it hit them. A person seeking truth would ask for numbers/facts and then present counterfacts, advancing both parties understanding. Otherwise, as you aptly quoted - "Opinions are like assholes- everyone has one".
You guys have addressed every concern - real and imagined in your numerous posts and comments. If these retards are too lazy to read and understand, arithmetically challenged, lack reading comprehension, thats no longer our problem. It is a problem created by Indian Education, and we can't do much about it (at this point).
They do not respect you. A person who respects you - respects your time and energy and would do due-diligence. They would have learnt how to use google. How to go back and read your other posts and comments before endeavouring on commenting. Their questions would be of the form -- "Ok, I understand this so far, but I have problem following things from here on". They comment to make you change your mind, with asinine, fallacy-ridden comments.
Attention is a gift. Use it as such. Do not squander it on ass-retardant creatures.
Best,
Idler.
Idler:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the suggestion. Will keep that in mind.
I still continue to retain the right to respond or not. If the author tends to degenerate the discussion, I stop.
Correction:
ReplyDeleteThey comment to make you change your mind, with asinine, fallacy-ridden comments.
Should be:
They would not comment to make you change your mind, with asinine, fallacy-ridden comments.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteAs long as the revenues from the rest of the country help build Hyd and Hyd gives back that money as revenue again to Central Govt everyone is fine.
So you are saying that in every separation, either it is district, state or country, the money should be given back to those who have spend on building the city? How does the procedure work out? How far back in time do we go to calculate the money spent?
All,
ReplyDeletePlease get your facts right before taking a stance. Here's some info to help you along. Dante et al is fine for quoting but its astoundingly primitive to be polarized to this extent.
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/6639225/17241058
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/6639991/17244085
Anomymous:
ReplyDeleteThis diversion of funds to state capital caused the development of Hyd. So it belongs to all the state, not just from some people who lived there.
So why didn't Bhopal belong to Chattisgarh after it got separated, and why didn't Patna belong to Jharkhand after it got separated?
Blueshift:
ReplyDeletewho is giving chance here and who grabbed the change?
Andhra people worked hard despite such reverse reservation insanities like mulki rules.
Who is stopping Telangana people from migrating to Vizag and work in Steel factories?
Have you ever heard of the words like discrimination, marginalization, suppression, domination, which work against even hard working people?
Why didn’t Indians prosper under British? Who was stopping Indians? Why did Indians fight against British if they were doing well under British?
Blueshift:
ReplyDeleteI request Sujai to refrain from spreading such miss information.
There should be no reason why you don't want to be enlightened.
You should also read more about history - of Blacks in US and of Dalits in India, of origins of Naxal movement in India.
Hopefully, you will understand what discrimination, marginalization and suppression means.
Anonymous, I admire your thoughtful ideas.
ReplyDeleteThis works in a business arrangement but not in this case. This is a state(here I mean country) affair. Any govt. is not supposed to expect revenues from the investments or funding it provides. It is it's responsibility to provide. The responsibility of the state is to work for its people's betterment and not to expect revenues in return. What should be expected first is the upliftment of quality of life. Eventually that will give the people ability to improove the revenues.But just for the sake of revenues the govt. is not supposed to invest. Govt. adminstration is for the people and not the other way.( Our preamble makes this the central point of our constitution). As far as I think the funding till now spent on Hyderabad has achieved its aim. All the people of AP are bearing the fruits of developed hyderabad. Central funding goes to central gvt. projects and there is no rule that persons of particular region only should be employed in these projects. This can be howeverworked out after the formation of separate state through a bilateral dialogue. For that matter it is not a big issue. i would like to clear the point here that demand for separate state is not just to usurp the revenues of hyderabad city. It is for the overall development of telangana region. It is to get the voice of telangana people greater identity in its regional affairs and progress. This has been severly neglected for the past 50 years.
And also I repeat "The central govt said that it was investing in AP when it invested in Hyd. If Hyd was not in AP and govt invested in Hyd and said we invested in AP, that that wouldn't make sense. And MPs would have said no you didn't invest in our state."
That is the core advantage of having a separate state and decentralization. The central govt. has to oversee the afairs of the utilization of its funding and not to judge where the state needs money. It is the state's reponsibility. Ofcourse our constitution clearly provides state with powers to utilize its revenues at its own discretion. More powers will be eventually provided given the wake of reforms regarding fedral-state policies that have gained importance since the sarkariya commission reccomendations.
Regarding this I would also like to inform you that development of hyderabad has no way affected the andhra region. Andhra region is very well developed now. The development of hyderbad has indirectly improved the quality of andhra people's lives and their region more than that of telangana region. Where as only few regions in Andhra are considered backward, most of the remaining telangana are underdeveloped and infact underwent sever economic, industrial and agricultural retrogression. Telangana people far less have bore the fruits of central govt. funding in hyderbad compared to andhra pradesh. Separating the state with hyderabad has its capital would certainly bring the things back to equal terms.
Anonymous, I admire your thoughtful ideas.
ReplyDelete. As long as the revenues from the rest of the country help build Hyd and Hyd gives back that money as revenue again to Central Govt everyone is fine.
This works in a business arrangement but not in this case. This is a state(here I mean country) affair. Any govt. is not supposed to expect revenues from the investments or funding it provides. It is it's responsibility to provide. The responsibility of the state is to work for its people's betterment and not to expect revenues in return. What should be expected first is the upliftment of quality of life. Eventually that will give the people ability to improove the revenues.But just for the sake of revenues the govt. is not supposed to invest. Govt. adminstration is for the people and not the other way.( Our preamble makes this the central point of our constitution). As far as I think the funding till now spent on Hyderabad has achieved its aim. All the people of AP are bearing the fruits of developed hyderabad. Central funding goes to central gvt. projects and there is no rule that persons of particular region only should be employed in these projects. This can be howeverworked out after the formation of separate state through a bilateral dialogue. For that matter it is not a big issue. i would like to clear the point here that demand for separate state is not just to usurp the revenues of hyderabad city. It is for the overall development of telangana region. It is to get the voice of telangana people greater identity in its regional affairs and progress. This has been severly neglected for the past 50 years.
And also I repeat "The central govt said that it was investing in AP when it invested in Hyd. If Hyd was not in AP and govt invested in Hyd and said we invested in AP, that that wouldn't make sense. And MPs would have said no you didn't invest in our state."
That is the core advantage of having a separate state and decentralization. The central govt. has to oversee the afairs of the utilization of its funding and not to judge where the state needs money. It is the state's reponsibility. Ofcourse our constitution clearly provides state with powers to utilize its revenues at its own discretion. More powers will be eventually provided given the wake of reforms regarding fedral-state policies that have gained importance since the sarkariya commission reccomendations.
Regarding this I would also like to inform you that development of hyderabad has no way affected the andhra region. Andhra region is very well developed now. The development of hyderbad has indirectly improved the quality of andhra people's lives and their region more than that of telangana region. Where as only few regions in Andhra are considered backward, most of the remaining telangana are underdeveloped and infact underwent sever economic, industrial and agricultural retrogression. Telangana people far less have bore the fruits of central govt. funding in hyderbad compared to andhra pradesh. Separating the state with hyderabad has its capital would certainly bring the things back to equal terms.
cont.. to anonymous
ReplyDeleteFor the record, making Hyd a UT is also not a viable idea. That is the defensive mechanism that people from rest of AP are using. Everyone from all over AP invested their share in Hyd and every one should get their returns. If everyone is not getting the returns then fix the system! Not only the people in the villages of Telengana, even the people in villages in rest of AP are not getting the benefits of developing capital city. The development should be distributed across the state and country. If not it will be like cart on wheels of different sizes. Here the only big wheel is Hyd, rest of AP are the short wheels. The short wheels invested so much in the growth in the big wheel now it has to get its returns.
I agree with you on that.
But formation of separate state however does not mandate that the investors have to take back their investments at loss. They will still be encouraged to conduct normal business but may be only the taxes they pay would be utilized in telangana. NO body is forcing them to spend their profits for the development of telangana. Here it is a business arrangement. They can spend it in investing in andhra or any where in india at their own discretion.The enterpreneurs usually do not invest to improve the standards of people. Their primary importance and intentions are profits. During the due process the people of the region may benefit from the investments directly from employment opportunities and indirectly from the local land revenues and infrastructure as a result of these investments. But still the investors have the profits they want. Ofcourse they can freely hire people from their own region if they want to.
The economic and political development model has to be fixed. Just breaking up the state doesn't do. After break up this uneven growth is going to repeat all over again not only in Telengana but what is left of AP.
ReplyDeleteFix the system not break it! And be model to the rest of the country and world.
I disagree. Nothing is fixed. A progressive approach is to allow evolution and dynamic trends as per the needs and necessities of the time. If China had struck to the same old model of agricultural and cultural values model laid by Mao it would not have seen the present economic growth.
Althoug it did not drastically change its political model of govt. it changed its economic stand long before india did (in 1978 even before USSR), in accordance with the changing international market and economic trends.
Even if the state does not break up there is no guarentee that such an uneven growth will not be repeated. It depends on several extraneous factors more than a thing like small change in regional govt. However by separating as state telangana is not going to change its progressive economic model. That would be a disaster for its own development.
It is more and more clear that ppl are worried only about the "loss" of "investments" in Hyd.
ReplyDeleteNo one is talking of confiscating properties or investments. PPl from all over India and the world will continue to hold and make investments in Hyd. Any sane State would welcome such investments.
Opportunities: If one steps back and looks at the picture, a new State (ie the new Andhra) will offer huge opportunities for ppl to make money : a new capital will be created, it will need a new world class airport, roads, power etc. All these will create tens of thousands of jobs for all kinds of ppl rich poor , educated, uneducated.
So welcome change.
The T State has been in the womb for decades. Allow it to come out and grow naturally. We will actually make good neigbours and can collaborate!
Yogjip,
ReplyDeleteYou said "They are numerical illiterates, unable to compare numbers and see Telangana is screwed every way possible."
What numbers did you brothers quote when they said people from rest of the state didn't do anything for Hyd?
If you can show that I am happy to take all the titles that you gave to your opponents in discussion in your post.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteyou said:
So you are saying that in every separation, either it is district, state or country, the money should be given back to those who have spend on building the city? How does the procedure work out? How far back in time do we go to calculate the money spent?
Of course it should be paid off. Because everyone has a share! Everyone in AP bought a share in the development of Hyd. In your A and B conversation if the marriage breaks up they have to share the property. All the future profits from any thriving business(Hyd is this businees in our case) that cannot be split should be shared.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteOf course it should be paid off. Because everyone has a share!
Please quote an instance where this happened.
We have many examples from the contemporary history. Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Uttarakhand, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Himachal Pradesh, etc, have been formed in the last fifty years.
Please use any of the example and explain how everyone was paid off. We will follow that in split of Andhra Pradesh.
Investments to be paid off?!
ReplyDeleteWho has to be paid off:
GMR, a private group that owns the Airport? They will be happy to stay there..
The 1000s of private cos that have investments in Hyd: again..they will be happy to stay there. If they do want to sell out..other investors will be happy to buy them out. So they will be paid out! or will continue to own the properties/businesses.
Investments in roads, drainage etc. Every city gets this investment. A large part of it is funded by the Centre and by taxes on local users. It is anyway miniscule compared to the private investment in Hyd.
In any case no one is asking anyone to leave. Businessmen (who have made the heaviest investments) will continue to stay if it makes business sense and if there is a conducive atmosphere for them to grow their money. In fact thats the biggest test of the T State. If ppl indeed feel uncomfortable and leave after say 2 or 3 years, then T S would have done a bad job.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI was about to post the same comments as you did. These people opposing telangana are just no less than Britishers as pointed out by Sujai.
The simple rule: *When a new state forms, no settlers in Telangana will be asked to leave Telangana*. To those settled in Telangana, Telangana will be their new domicile.
I agree with yogijp.
"The simple rule: *When a new state forms, no settlers in Telangana will be asked to leave Telangana*."
ReplyDeleteTelangana seperatists must stop using certain words.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteYou said "Please quote an instance where this happened."
Something that didn't happen in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't happen in the future. Who gained independence by peaceful means before India? When was a woman given alimony before the first alimony was given. Things are started by someone at some point of time.
When Bombay was not given to Gujarat and the Gujaratis didn't revolt that is their decision. Who cares what they did. When some of the newer states formed leaving the capital city to the mother state, that is their decision. They decided to lose out on their investment. We are not! Try to bring in some investors into a business and then when the business is successful ask them to let go off the business. Would they accept? Your A and B conversation also fits this case.
You invest in something you gotta get the returns!
Well that is if you want to breakoff so badly. Why break off the state, this uneven growth is a bad economic model. Let us try to move to a distributed economic growth, similar to what people like Gandhi proposed.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteYou said "So why didn't Bhopal belong to Chattisgarh after it got separated, and why didn't Patna belong to Jharkhand after it got separated?"
Chattisgarh wanted to breakoff and they didn't want Bhopal.
You guys breakoff and leave Hyd to the rest of the state like the Jharkand and Chattisgarh people did.
Again...
Why break off the state. Let us move to an economic model that doesn't just develop a city. Let us try to develop each every part of state and country.
Sravan,
ReplyDeleteI am the guy who is stressing on moving to different economic model.
You are writing a lot of replies here. I appreciate your effort. But somehow I think you and I don't understand what each other say.
Sorry, this has happened to me before. I am either a bad writer or reader or both. So I will stop replying to some of your comments unless I am sure we understand each clearly in that message.
Thanks!
Blueshift,
ReplyDeleteYou should also stop using the word separitists.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteChattisgarh wanted to breakoff and they didn't want Bhopal.
You guys breakoff and leave Hyd to the rest of the state like the Jharkand and Chattisgarh people did.
So you are saying that anyone who ‘wants’ to opt out has to lose the capital city even if the capital city lies inside the region that wants to break off.
So you basically believe that the reason why Bihar and Madhya Pradesh retained the capital city had nothing to do with the fact that the capital cities were lying in these states, but had everything to with who ‘wanted’ to opt out and who ‘stayed’ back.
Is this what you are trying to say, or am I missing something?
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteTry to bring in some investors into a business and then when the business is successful ask them to let go off the business. Would they accept?
We are not asking you to let go off the business. It is just that it has now changed hands. You have an option to sell off or keep invested depending on whether you like the new ownership or not. Nobody is kicking you out of the business.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteYou said:
We are not asking you to let go off the business. It is just that it has now changed hands. You have an option to sell off or keep invested depending on whether you like the new ownership or not. Nobody is kicking you out of the business.
You mean the rest of the AP will keep getting the revenue generated from Hyd?
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteYou said:
So you are saying that anyone who ‘wants’ to opt out has to lose the capital city even if the capital city lies inside the region that wants to break off.
No. All I am saying is that the part that wanted to break up(Chattisgarh and Jharkhand) contributed a lot to the development of their capital cities. But when they decided to break away they wanted to let go of all the revenues that the capital city was generating due to their(chattisgarh) investment.
The situation here in AP is totally different. The part that wants to break up is the part that wants to keep the capital that was developed with investments that were meant for the whole state.
Again...
Don't break away. Tell me your plan to prevent such uneven growth in your state. Let us try to implement it now.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThank for the answer,
What you said is fixing up the model that you mean the model now is not working out for the city? t is working out for the city and state except for telangana. That is what went upon explaining that andhra region is relatively several times well off than telangana. It is not about fixing the model, what I mean is, we have to allow both political and economic models to change depending upon the needs and necessities.
Of course I wrongly assumed that you do not want to separate the state. Is that assumption wrong.
So I thought yu just wanted to fix the economic model but not the most important failing political model. That is why we need a separate state. Where as economic situation is not just dependent only on the political system(unless it completely changes the democratic and republic system our country adopted inside out.) but on various other market forces that are global in nature and not related to localized system instabilities.
If I am still wrong then please let me know. I would appreciate your patience.
Thank you
Well Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI just went through your comments and i strongly feel that you are just considering a democratic set up as some thing like a business set up. It is not. It is quite different. Where as in usiness parties change alignment and ownerships forsake of profits, in democracy every step should be taken for the welfare of people and not solely for revenues.
Comparing andhrites to british is pointless.
ReplyDeletea)Small british investors did not come here. IT was all done by an imperialist goliath called East India company. Most of the andhrites have come here with nothing but clothes on their back.
b) British treated India as a supplement, a mine of raw materials for their beloved land. They neither started a steel plant nor a factory here. People of andhra have started various pharma and related industries that employs telanganites.
c) British never added any tax revenue to the goverement to fund any welfare activities. Factories started by andhras have given valualbe tax revenue, by which YSR was able to start Arogya Sri, and Indira House and Sanitation programmes.
I have never imagined the forces of regionalism to be so strong. The nadir is a comparision of people who speak the same language to exploitative british.
Bhanu Prasad:
ReplyDeleteComparing andhrites to british is pointless.
Comparison was limited to taking claim for a city/country just because they were a party to it.
Any unintended comparison other than that is a product of reader's imagination.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteBut when they decided to break away they wanted to let go of all the revenues that the capital city was generating due to their(chattisgarh) investment.
Speculation.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou mean the rest of the AP will keep getting the revenue generated from Hyd?
Yes. For all their investments made in Hyderabad, they will get the revenues generated form Hyderabad.
An anonymous commenter pointed out to videos of a first-class chameleon, Dr. JP. My comments after watching his video.
ReplyDeleteJayaprakash Narayan, a venerable idiot, is undeniably against the growth of Telangana. He doesn't state what his stand is. He writes articles, blog posts, appears in interviews, goes to Delhi and meets many leaders - but doesn't say what his solution is. This, despite an open challenge from Chiranjeevi (another traitor) to specify where he stands. He says nothing like nobody else, he is the first person I would point to as an example of "content free communicator".
On his loksatta blog he quotes Martin Luther King: "The silence of good men is more dangerous than the brutality of bad men.". Yet, remains mum on the issue. Of course, tther than fooling himself by talking a lot, skirting around the issue, claiming moral highground and projecting himself head-and-shoulders above other leaders.
In a blog post: "Centralization of power to blame For poverty", he makes a strong case for decentralization of power. From his blog:
"Unless people are made partners in governance through decentralization of power.. poverty will continue to persist"
".. decentralization of administration with devolution of powers, responsibilities and resources on elected people’s committees in both urban and rural areas, provision of quality education and health care at Government cost to every citizen and institutional mechanisms to eradicate corruption should be the Government’s priorities, he said."
Though he is aware of the critical importance of decentralization, of which, carving out new states is a necessary first step, he doesn't come out in support of Telangana.
He projects himself as a friend of Telangana - though all his actions are anti-Telangana. He is tooth and nails against the proposed irrigation projects in the Telangana area. These are just proposed, we all know that they will never be implemented, but yet, this idiot is against those proposals.
He comes out as a stauch supporter of democratic solutions, though there is no democratic solution in AP, 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on "whats for dinner?". The 2 wolves being Andhra and Seema with 175 votes are the wolves and Telangana with 119 votes is the sheep. I wish he had some more experience with basic literacy, usage of arithmetic operators would help him.
He says all parties should be equally dissatisfied with the solution. So, if someone proposed to rape his wife, he will form a committee of 3 (wife, rapist, Dr.JPN) and propose a solution that his wife should be raped, but the rapist can't go all the way and has to withdraw after sometime. This will be equally disssatisfactory to all: his wife would be unhappy, the rapist would be unhappy, Dr.JPN would be unhappy watching his wife getting raped.
He makes straw man arguments, that is, misrespresents the position of Telangana people, like so: "Telangana people are claiming that they are backward and are asking for a separate state". The position of Telangana people is that of misallocation of resources (money, water, jobs, etc). He NEVER admits that there were injustices against Telangana and resources were directed elsewhere. He says that all places and all districts are equally backward.
(continued..)
(continued from above ..)
ReplyDeleteNow, he does something even more diabolical. JPN FALSIFIES information - that this struggle is just like others of fundamentalist origin: race, region, tribe, regionalism. He makes an extrordinary claim, that Telangana people say Andhra is responsible for their backwardness, just like Nazi Germans claimed Jews as the source of all their problems. In this process, he reduces the struggle for Telangana to a fundamentalist one (with no ligitimate grievances) and marks the Telangana people as fundamentalist, just like Nazis.
With 'friends' like Dr.JP, does Telangana need enemies?
Stoning to death would be a fair and just punishment for Dr. JP. He would be dissattisfied that he is dead, I would be dissatisfied that we had to resort to such means. - a solution which is along his lines.
Idler:
ReplyDeleteYes, I have seen that video of Jayprakash Narayan.
He keeps repeating cliches but doesn't take a stand. He is quite slippery. He doesn't want to be be slotted into any category. He doesn't say this or that. He likes to stay on the wall.
The hallmark of this blog seems to be taking a stance which couldn't be farther from facts. But hey, its a stance and that supposedly makes you a better man. Here I was, passer by, pointing out a piece of relevant information and what do you do? Rape it.
ReplyDeleteIgnoramus (Idler), grow up.
If you and I talk politics, we would be reduced to analogies of orgies. If JP talks politics, its based on facts and he is diplomatic as any politician is wont to be. It wont be based on cliches. JP presented his opinions to the decision makers. He need not speak to every Tom Dick and Harry who will only use it to antagonise and misinterpret. Not accepting facts that refute your argument is not exactly a sign of healthy discussion.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteDr. JP is a jackass who has no clue but considers himself to be elitist. His followers, such as yourself, don't have a clue either, consider themseves part of an elite club of intellectuals. Elite by association!! Rather, elitism by cluelessness! Pray, what 'facts' JP presents? Please lookup the logical fallacy - appeal to Authority. Here, you are trying to lend legitimacy to some irrelevant claims by presenting JP as authority. He is no authority, presents no facts, talks like a joker (of course, with righteous indignation!), and is anti-Telangana.
PS: How did you know that my one of Sahasranama is Ignoramus? Are you stalking me? Are you? Are you?
Idler,
ReplyDeleteI think JP wants to follow the long known mantra of Congress that is "calculative silence" so as not to loose his base support in both regions(if he has any).
That is why he is trying to bring into picture the broader district level concentration of power and politics(which ofcourse is essential eventually). Thereby he is ignoring the necessity of focussing the same idealogy in relation to telangana issue and smaller states. I would say he is an escapist. If he continues to avoid the issue people will evade his idealogy.
He should first come out of his self-glorification as an IAS officer resigned to save people.
Idler, why do you get all worked up at the slightest disagreement? Your dumb brain cannot fathom anything other than a separate T state. You launch your obscene tirade on any one who got a difference of opinion. Everyone can observe who is the real ass '0' here. While you are idling around, why don't you grow some commonsense and decency?
ReplyDeleteI watched Dr. JP's interview too. It is clearly evident that he is no fan of separate state, but so what? Anonymous above, responded correctly. With both sides raising stakes so high, he talked about compromise. The people from both sides clearly expressed what they want and there is no point of involving people anymore. He talked about the dangers of raising emotions of hatred in people. It is in this context he compared with Nazi Germany. Pseudo intellectuals like you call him elitist because his opinions do not conform to your obsessions. It is now for the politicians and intellectuals from both sides to work out a solution and there will be some give n take. Everyone will have to swallow some bitter pills.
Manohar,
ReplyDeleteYou have showered so much praise on Mr. Jayaprakash Narayan that I felt compelled to reply.
Your lines remind me of an ignorant woman shouting on the idiot-box "Maa naayakudu emi chesina aalochinchi correcte chestaru".
Hats-off to your sheep-like nature.
Mr. Narayan drew an analogy between the struggle for Telangana and the Nazi-Germany. It is a laughable proposition.... a joke of century coming from your LEADER!!!
Mr. Idler's analogy is equally laughable.
But... pray explain to me... What exactly does he mean when he says "everyone should leave the table equally dissatisfied"??
Telangana region has not set claims on Guntur, Nellore or Kurnool. But, the politicians of 13 non-telangana districts are claiming their RIGHTS over telangana, they are forcing themselves on a region that just wants OUT of this failed-relationship.
In this context, exactly what does his "everyone should be equally dissatisfied" mean?
A wife wants divorce from husband... husband is going about burning buses and going on fast... saying, my emotions are HURT! But, dude... the wife WANTS OUT! And Mr. Narayan says, both should be equally dissatisfied.
I pity you for glorifying such a leader.
Archana,
ReplyDeleteOnce again, I dont think he compared Telangana movement with Nazism. I will visit that video again and I request you to do the same.
You may have issues with your RIGHTS, but people of other regions may not appreciate or understand that. They have their own grievances too, in case you have not noticed. There is a lot at stake and hence compromise is the way to go. Are you not seeing whats happening when this issue is reduced to simple yes/ no? Dont say this is simple because state divisions happened before also. The stakes are much higher here.
Another thing I liked of what he said is: Even if tempers subside now, we should not be complacent because this issue has been out there for a long time. Leaders from both sides have to work for a closure and also the modalities be worked out for separation or for staying united. The callous approach of central Govt already caused lot of pain to ordinary people.
Manohar,
ReplyDeleteI would really like to know. Please educate me on the 'STAKES' involved in this situation.
When there was a common pot, some grew fat and healthy, some grew thin and dumb. India has 'Socialism' in the first few sentences of the preamble.
What are the stakes of the common man in Krishna District or Kurnool District?
Manohar,
ReplyDeleteHere is what Telangana is asking for:
the RIGHT to uphold what is guaranteed by the constitution.
TELANGANA is for CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS of people of the region.
WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:
JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
EQUALITY of status and of opportunity;
and to promote among them all
FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation;
IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.
What is are the 13 non-Telangana districts fighting for? What are their stakes? If Telangana state forms, their houses in Hyderabad stay in Hyderabad, their jobs stay and so will their investments. What STAKES does the common man of other regions have in the re-formation of the Old Telangana state?
Archana said: "What is are the 13 non-Telangana districts fighting for? What are their stakes? If Telangana state forms, their houses in Hyderabad stay in Hyderabad, their jobs stay and so will their investments. What STAKES does the common man of other regions have in the re-formation of the Old Telangana state?"
ReplyDelete"Old Telangana state" ha? Too much water has flown down the Godavari since that ceased to exist.
Krishna and Kurnool got the same stake in Hyderabad as Adilabad or Khammam have. Lakhs of people moved from Seemandhra to Hyderabad for jobs and business. Dont go by KCRs number of 2 lakhs. Its natural as it is the capital of AP.
Separation cannot be like instant coffee in our state. Try to understand the fact that this totally different from other previous separations. Stop giving examples from the past because that will not do one bit to assuage anyone. Your leaders should build your case in a peaceful and democratic manner. Sell it to powers that be, make it mutually agreeable, before bringing to common public.
Stop making villains of Andhra people or 'Andhra Palakulu' etc. Understand that even if there was some exploitation of Telangana in AP, the biggest reasons for less development are all historic. Remember, we have to live together no matter what and the already existing workers or businesses are not going anywhere. Enough assurances should be given to small and big businesses, job workers common people. This cannot happen this kind of charged environment.
Sujai,
ReplyDeleteYou said Yes. For all their investments made in Hyderabad, they will get the revenues generated form Hyderabad.
You understand what you say here, don't you? I think you were following my comments on this particular post. Please read the earlier comments and reply.
To Manohar
ReplyDeleteKrishna and Kurnool got the same stake in Hyderabad as Adilabad or Khammam have.
FYI... Gujarat, Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu also have the same stake in Hyderabad as do the people of Hyderabad. So, why aren't the Gujaratis fighting over Hyderabad? Why only the non-Telangana districts in AP?
Lakhs of people moved from Seemandhra to Hyderabad for jobs and business. Dont go by KCRs number of 2 lakhs. Its natural as it is the capital of AP.
Good. They are welcome to stay till eternity! India is a free country. I still dont see a STAKE in your case!
Your leaders should build your case in a peaceful and democratic manner. Sell it to powers that be, make it mutually agreeable, before bringing to common public.
And.... Here lies the real trick. Telangana is in minority, so, to get what is rightfully guaranteed by the constitution, the people of telangana should compromise on what is rightfully theirs... to sell the idea of their self-governance to the 'Powers to be'! There is NO JUSTICE in your proposition.
Stop making villains of Andhra people or 'Andhra Palakulu' etc. Understand that even if there was some exploitation of Telangana in AP, the biggest reasons for less development are all historic.
Right! Exploitation is for 'historic reasons'... but, all development in Hyderabad is solely because of non-Telangana districts?? Correct your logic.
Remember, we have to live together no matter what and the already existing workers or businesses are not going anywhere. Enough assurances should be given to small and big businesses, job workers common people. This cannot happen this kind of charged environment.
Constitution guarantees to the migrants, their right to live and continue living in Hyderabad. No new assurances are needed. however, I see all leaders continuously announcing on idiot-box that all people who made Hyderabad their home, belonog to hyderabad, no one is going to oust them from their legal homes. The 'Charged environment' is created by the non-telangana districts.
Here is the question you never answered.
How does the life of a common man living in kurnool change because of Telangana?
NOTE: If you give another such irrelevant reply, I will not waste my time addressing the crap.
"all development in Hyderabad is solely because of non-Telangana districts?? Correct your logic."
ReplyDeleteNo, I never said that. I only say not to downplay the significant contributions from Seemandhra.
"FYI... Gujarat, Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu also have the same stake in Hyderabad as do the people of Hyderabad. So, why aren't the Gujaratis fighting over Hyderabad? Why only the non-Telangana districts in AP?"
If that is the case, why are Telangana people so adamant of forming state including Hyderabad. Forget Hyd since no one has any "stake" and I am sure you will get your Telangana with limited opposition. Why go against the will of many denizens of Hyd?
This answers your last question to some extent. There are numerous reasons why people of rest of AP are worried. I can give 1 example. Today service sector is providing lots of jobs and major revenues in our state. In many areas like IT, entertainment, pharma etc the most important investment is human capital. The kind of ecosystem needed for this is present only in Hyderabad (in AP) today. It is never easy to decide a random city and start building. It also takes a lot of time.
Now you can say, it will be like people going to Bangalore or Pune for a job. But there is a reason why we, the people of AP, put efforts over all these years to keep Hyd ahead or on par with rest of the cities. They felt that they had a responsibility and stake in developing the capital of their state.
Hope, what I wrote sounds relevant to you.
Archana,
ReplyDeleteTo summarize Manohar: If you invite him to dinner, he will eat your food, pack the rest of it to his remote relatives in Andhra, will ransack your house, sell your stuff, will claim that the house belongs to him - because his blessed feet were in your house. He will also say you are uncultured, uncouth and not very pleased that he is doing this great favor of loot and plunder.
You can't ask him to leave - coz that is against Unity of a victim and perpetrator of a crime.
You try to get justice from elders (center), they will ask you to get Manohar's permission and consensus!
Manohar sallagunda!!
Idler,
ReplyDeleteYou are tremendously witty.
Manohar
ReplyDeleteIf that is the case, why are Telangana people so adamant of forming state including Hyderabad. Forget Hyd since no one has any "stake" and I am sure you will get your Telangana with limited opposition. Why go against the will of many denizens of Hyd?
The stake of telangana is that hyderabad is in this land. The stakes of others who moved to hyderabad are their businesses and employment which they have been benefitted for several years.
So if we take our stakes back then hyderabd should go to telangana.
So if you say separate hyderabad from telangana....Is it not downplaying the role of telangana in development of hyderabad?
Try to reason instead of playing with words.
Sravan: "So if you say separate hyderabad from telangana....Is it not downplaying the role of telangana in development of hyderabad? Try to reason instead of playing with words."
ReplyDeleteIt certainly is not downplaying role of Telangana districts. If nobody has any stake, then anybody can come, work and live there, including people from T districts.
When we say, people of AP have financial interests in Hyd, you say that we have to suffer because we are selfish moneyed people. You forget that a lot of hardworking common people are worried now. Apart from financial interests, there is an emotional aspect to this. For people of AP, Hyderabad as their NY + Hollywood + Silicon Valley and much more. People take vicarious satisfaction when they see some positive happening in Hyderabad. Now, one fine day, you say you are an outsider to Hyderabad, people are not able to digest. Do not expect instant coffee Telangana state.
Interesting you find Idler witty. Somehow I find him despicable and spiteful. What is his contribution to this forum other than his meaningless and irrelevant metaphors, spewing venom on anyone who got a difference of opinion and ridiculing people of Andhra?
Manohar,
ReplyDeleteDo you know what is contextomy and "thirdman effect? If you are not one then unknown to you are master of the art.
You are simply being selective to make things in your favor.
I said telangana's stake is its land. If others want to take away their stakes then telangana will have hyderabad. But if you separate hyderabad, telangana will loose its stake for others whose stake is mere investments and employment. I doubt if those who came to hyderaabad have any stakes here because they just reaped income from the city.
I never knew contextomy, but I immediately figured it could be killing of context. But I will Google it later.
ReplyDeleteMost of the current generation of AP grew up knowing that Hyderabad is the capital of our state. We never know its more exclusive to Telangana. For most of present generation, your argument might sound like this: My house lizard's great grand ancestor was this Dinosaur which roamed and shit in what is today's Hyd. I will have my claim on Hyderabad!
Trust me, even if separate T state is solution for betterment of everyone, its gonna take some time for this fact to sink in. And any announcement should come with assurances and a sense of fairness.
Manohar,
ReplyDeleteMost of the current generation of AP grew up knowing that Hyderabad is the capital of our state. We never know its more exclusive to Telangana.
I agree that our current generation grew up with knowing hyderabad as capital. And also the current generation grew up knowing our state means congregation of three regions, A+T+R.
So why does it matter only when issue of Hyderabad comes up? Why do you say that it is easy to let go telangana with out Hyderabad? So do you think our generations have become so narrow minded that they do not see beyond the capital city. Or they do not want to identify with state while happily saying they belong to a state whose capital is hyderabad?
I know our history and geography lessons suck but I do not know that
your teachers have been teaching you that City is greater than state.
My house lizard's great grand ancestor was this Dinosaur which roamed and shit in what is today's Hyd. I will have my claim on Hyderabad!
That is OK but your house lizard claims it because it says "I've been shitting here since i was a Kid"
"So why does it matter only when issue of Hyderabad comes up? Why do you say that it is easy to let go telangana with out Hyderabad? So do you think our generations have become so narrow minded that they do not see beyond the capital city. Or they do not want to identify with state while happily saying they belong to a state whose capital is hyderabad?"
ReplyDeleteHow can I explain you! OK, our state of AP is more like France when it comes to concentration of development etc. All French come to Paris and are proud of Paris.
If it comes to losing Hyderabad, every Seemandhra person will feel sad, but over time that shall pass too. I hope you understand and I cant explain you more than this.
If it comes to losing Hyderabad, every Seemandhra person will feel sad, but over time that shall pass too. I hope you understand and I cant explain you more than this.
ReplyDeleteThanks that you understand it in this manner.
If it is so, then it is good for all of us to separate with telangana having its capital as Hyderabad.
I know seemandhra people will be sad for a while that they do not call hyderabad their capital and telangana people may feel sad that Vizag is not in their state now.
After all it is for the better reason that we are separating and that we are not forcefully clubbed together for such a silly childish sentiment.
I know seemandhra people will be sad for a while that they do not call hyderabad their capital and telangana people may feel sad that Vizag is not in their state now.
ReplyDeleteI can feel you had a small victory dance after writing this, but thats ok.
After all it is for the better reason that we are separating and that we are not forcefully clubbed together for such a silly childish sentiment.
Silly childish sentiment? I asked a few Telangana friends of mine about their understanding of 'Samaikya Andhra'. Everyone of them can relate to what that means in their own way. Everyone can relate it to but may not agree with it because it goes against separate T state. I am sure all the guys here also understand what that means!
Manohar,
ReplyDeleteAfter all it is for the better reason that we are separating and that we are not forcefully clubbed together for such a silly childish sentiment.
Silly childish sentiment? I asked a few Telangana friends of mine about their understanding of 'Samaikya Andhra'. Everyone of them can relate to what that means in their own way. Everyone can relate it to but may not agree with it because it goes against separate T state. I am sure all the guys here also understand what that means!
You show your mastery in contextomy here again. I am really dismayed the way you just preferentilly select few words from whole lot of sentence that I take pains to compose.
Is it not that you said,
If it comes to losing Hyderabad, every Seemandhra person will feel sad, but over time that shall pass too?
If you still did not understand i will tell you some real old incident in my life.
When I was a young child, I brought home a guava seedling from a nearby playground and planted it in our backyard. Over the next few years I watered it and tendered it so much.It grew into a tall tree with in few years and I was still a school kid and just was in 8th std. I used to climb that tree every evening and play. It really produced so many fruits (you wouldn't believe I say there were more fruits than leaves sometimes)that everyone in our neighbourhood had a sore eye. I was kind of proud about it and always boasted of it.
However like things always do not go in our way, we had to change this rented house to move to a far-off place. I was completely devastated because I developed a great attachment to our backyard because of this tree. But still I had to face it and with in few months I was able to adjust living in a new home with out any backyard at all.
I think that gives you some insight and also to your friends.
I know seemandhra people will be sad for a while that they do not call hyderabad their capital and telangana people may feel sad that Vizag is not in their state now.
ReplyDeleteI can feel you had a small victory dance after writing this, but thats ok
I think you are very nostalgic my friend and resisting to loose your memories of childhood adventures.
For, we are not playing a game of chess.
Somehow I find him despicable and spiteful. What is his contribution to this forum other than his meaningless and irrelevant metaphors, spewing venom on anyone who got a difference of opinion and ridiculing people of Andhra?
ReplyDeleteMahohar.. thank you for the compliments!! :)
I forgot to add that you will also steal the tableware and take loans on the house which doesn't belong to you.
Idler, what you write might be good for a momentary laugh, but seriously, this is the kind of stuff that propagates hate. My blood boils when you call us settlers or outsiders. I lived in Hyd for 10 years, paid taxes there and also got voting rights in Hyd. Now who is the outsider here? Myself or some bozo coming here from Warangal and terrorizing all of us?
ReplyDeleteI saw an interview this morning in a tv channel. A Telangana goonda is giving explanation to the incidents in Kukatpally. He says "Has anything happened to you in the last 50 years? Did we not treat you well all this time? Dont see us in bad light for what happened yesterday forgetting our peaceful past" I was like what the fuck man! Nobody took care of anyone. If any, it is our police and law system that protects all of us. This is no jagir of yours or anyone.
The problem is that the politicians of T made us villains to rally their masses.
Any person of AP is equally welcome to any part of AP. The JAC should make a statement on this.
Dear Poor Manohar,
ReplyDeleteI really pity you because inpite of 10 years of such a dreadfully peaceful life you are today worried that a goonda from some where you do not know(but you are confident he is a goonda) asks you the truth ? I understand you are now dreadfully ducking and boiling with anger at the same time, I really would like to empathize with you (out of curiosity to know how it feels to feel two things at the same time). You have every right to call every person you percieve as telanganite who appears before you and asks you this question as a dreadful goonda. You by the virue of your staying in the city of hyderabad, capital of AP which is distantly related to telangana and very closely associated with distant andhra, have every right to abuse him who asks you think rationally for a moment because some one from this distant telangana lioke him attacked some one like you some where in the city you happened to live.
You have a prejudice deep inside you that a telanganite does not belong to telangana (by some a strange absurd reason you guys already figured out and proved it among yourselves) and entitle yourself as natives and telanganites as outsider goondas. However you still call your selves andhrites by the afoermentioned theory of close association with distant region. Your blood boils when some outside telanganite settler calls you as settler because you think you are literally native by your own reason who is in close association with distantly located but closely associated andhra.
Nowadays a strange phenomenon is commonly seen when people like Manohar venture out on streets in their beloved city Hyderabad.
ReplyDeleteOn one side of him stand a joker from very far off unrelated telangana district amusing him
On one side stand a telangana goonda who is not a telanganite and from unknown place intimidating him.
on the third side stand a police who is apparently from andhra(he is not a buffoon or goonda so not a telanganite, if not then andhrite. I don't care if he is born in so called telangana district. By virtue of being police he is just andhrite but do not dare say word "settler" you may face prison)
Well with this combination, our gentleman is experiencing a strange syncretism of emotions. To summarize,
dread- because of the intimidation by the telangana but non-telanganite goonda
amused- because the joker is plaiyng pranks.
peace: because the policeman is preventing any attack.
Good luck nye
Friends:
ReplyDeleteIf KCR continues to lead the "Telangana Movement", eventually he will be branded as a "Terrorist/Naxalite/Nazi". And all the "Telangana Aspirants" will be termed as "Goondas".
The whole "Telangana Movement" is going out of control and turning violent. Once the movement turns violent and ugly, "Telangana State" will be a dream forever.
Only way to achieve "Telangana" is through "Consultations" with people from "Andhra/Seema". There is no short-cut to this process.
KCR is getting desperate to become the "CM of Telangana State" ASAP. But unfortunately, KCR is a bad advertisement for "Telangana Cause". As long as KCR talks like "Hiltler", Seemandhra people will oppose Telangana.
"Telangana Movement" is complex, "Seemandhra People" are the focus of this movement. To mobilise "Telangana people", Seemandhra people are shown as villains. But winning the support of these Seemandhra people is very crucial in the formation of "Telangana".
We need great statesmanly leaders from both Telangana and Seemandhra to find a solution. But with KCR at the helm of Telangana movement, its all shitty atmosphere and not at all conducive for peaceful talks.
Ashok:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the concern. We have no problem to be branded as ‘Goondas’. For most Andhras, all Telangana people are ‘Goondas’ whether KCR is in the picture or not. That’s because the only Telangana people in any Telugu movie is invariably a ‘Goonda’.
Only way to achieve "Telangana" is through "Consultations" with people from "Andhra/Seema". There is no short-cut to this process.
Why should we consult with people of Andhra? Why should the process be so tedious? How come Jharkhand, Chattisgarh and Uttarakhand happen so easily?
KCR is getting desperate to become the "CM of Telangana State" ASAP.
We are more desperate than him to get our Telangana.
But unfortunately, KCR is a bad advertisement for "Telangana Cause".
Some of us want to invite Chandra Babu Naidu as a leader. While you are at it, why don’t you import someone from Europe or North America.
"Telangana Movement" is complex, "Seemandhra People" are the focus of this movement.
It is simple if you make it simple. There should be a Telangana because people of Telangana want it. How can you make it more simple than that? Why are Andhra people in the focus of this movement? They are no party to it.
To mobilise "Telangana people", Seemandhra people are shown as villains. But winning the support of these Seemandhra people is very crucial in the formation of "Telangana".
Why do we seek support of Andhras? If history taught us one thing, we will never get their support.
Sujai:
ReplyDeleteI want you to take my comments in a positive way. We are in modern Indian democracy and without due consultations with all the stakeholders, sensitive issues like Telangana will not be resolved. Even in the past cases of Jharkhand, Chattisgarh etc, consultations with the concerned parties were done.
Without consultations, if any decision on Telangana is taken unilaterally, do you think post-separation, Telangana and Andhra states can co-exist peacefully without issues?
I fully support the aspirations of Telangana people for their self-rule. But you are aware that lot of issues are involved due to the mistakes of founding fathers of AP.
I personally think its all about Hyderabad. If Andhra/Seema leaders had developed two Hyd-like cities based on knowledge economy, for both the regions, then there wouldn't have been so much focus on Hyderabad. Its a poor vision of the founding fathers of AP, instead of developing multiple cities of excellence, they have put all eggs in one basket of Hyderabad.
Most of the current generation has no clue about the historical circumstances under which Hyderabad was made the capital of AP. Now assume in 1956, Hyd as the glass beaker, and mix the contributions of Telangana (milk), andhra (sugar), seema (water) in it. Now in 2010, to find out and quantify the contributions telangana/andhra/seema towards Hyd development, is like asking to separate milk, water, sugar from the mixuture -- Is it possible??
So Telangana separation is a sensitive and complex issue. One has to look at the issue from all the three prisms, telangana/andhra/seema to solve the issue. I know that Telanganites are in a hurry but they have to sit at the negotiation table to discuss with andhra/seema people.
Its not Monarchy/Dictatorship to grant Telangana just like that without consultations. Lot of doubts exist in the minds of andhra/seema people about the timing of this "KCR fast", is it because of "NO YSR" or "Weak Rosayya", is this a conspiracy by Sonia to weaken powerful state like AP??
Ashoku...
ReplyDeletedo you think post-separation, Telangana and Andhra states can co-exist peacefully without issues?
States do not have standing militaries. Countries do. Telangana and Andhra will be 2 states in the Union of India. States do not attack each other.
Ashoku ..
ReplyDeletemix the contributions of Telangana (milk), andhra (sugar), seema (water) in it
Seema may be water, but Andhra is chinthapandu. Add Tamrarind to milk -- paalu pagilipoyayi!!! :(
Idler:
ReplyDeleteMeeru yentha chilipigaa saradagaa Telangana vishayam theesukunnaa..........Seema/andhra people co-operation/consultation lekundaa Telangana state form avvadam impossible.
Manam Seema/andhra people ni, British/Pakisthan laagaa compare chesinantha kaalam Telangana raadhu.
Only way broadminded statesman like thinking thone two sides ni oka common agreeable solution kosam try cheyyaali.
Maa Telangana state maaku urgent gaa thondaragaa iccheyyandi mee andhra/seema vaallu mee saavu meeru saavandi ante, No Use. Memu Hyderabad tho happy gaa maa Telangana state lo memu happy gaa vuntaamu, mee andhra/seema illu thagalapadithe adhi mee problem, we dont care ante..........Telangana Yeppatiki raadhu.
KCR already idhi "jaathula poru" antunnaadu........Last ki KCR oka ULFA Terrorist avuthaadu.......Telangana Movement oka Terrorist Movement gaa perceive cheyyabaduthundi, Appudu adhe Chidambaram ee Telangana Movement naxalites chethulloki pothundi ani saaku chuupinchi ee Telangana/KCR ni thokkipadesthaaru.
Andhuke brothers laagaa vidipovadam ante..........Roju KCR chetha bhuuthulu thittinchu kovadamaaa.........Idhena KCR policy. Ee KCR yenaa Telangana ki Brightest leader??
Ashok,
ReplyDeleteI want you to take my comments in a positive way. We are in modern Indian democracy and without due consultations with all the stakeholders, sensitive issues like Telangana will not be resolved
I really laugh at your biased version of peace and consultations.
You are simply trying to escape from the argument.
Well is it not true that the separate telangana movement this time had support from all the major parties in AP?
Is it not hte sudden betrayal of anhdra people that we are see this day?
ANd you speak of consultations ?
YTou cunning bastards provoke people and then brand them as goondas?
Stop playing your tricks.
Maa Telangana state maaku urgent gaa thondaragaa iccheyyandi mee andhra/seema vaallu mee saavu meeru saavandi ante, No Use. Memu Hyderabad tho happy gaa maa Telangana state lo memu happy gaa vuntaamu, mee andhra/seema illu thagalapadithe adhi mee problem, we dont care ante..........Telangana Yeppatiki raadhu.
ReplyDeleteKCR already idhi "jaathula poru" antunnaadu........Last ki KCR oka ULFA Terrorist avuthaadu.......Telangana Movement oka Terrorist Movement gaa perceive cheyyabaduthundi, Appudu adhe Chidambaram ee Telangana Movement naxalites chethulloki pothundi ani saaku chuupinchi ee Telangana/KCR ni thokkipadesthaaru
Ee telivi evani sanka naaka poyindi when all parties openly supported that they will work for telangana. Why did not this rajgopal and his paid crew start the high drama 2 months before when it looked like all the consensus required is almost achieved because except for CPI every party was ready for tlangana ans made open press statements in that regard.
Were you andhra people such an idiots not to understand the implications of those statements?
Or were you so proud of your supremacist view and power that you will always rule?
Sravan.. LOL!!
ReplyDeleteIn spite of their supremacist views, they are largely illiterate who can't read the party manifestos and question the leaders at that time.
Sravan:
ReplyDeleteSodhara, manchi maata cheppina yendhuku antha aavesamuth dhveshamutho alaa vuugi pothaavu.
Telangana State formation ki nenu support chesthunnaanu.....Kaani ee bhuuthulu thittadam, raallu visiri attack cheyyadam dwaaraa, "Telangana movement ki bad name vacchi wrong track lo velli Telangana state form avvadam kashtam avvuthundhi" ani annaanu thappaa?
KCR laagaa bhuuthulu thittukuntu, andhra/seema vallani prathi dhaaniki villains laagaa project chesthe Telangana vasthundhaaa??
Consultations jarapandi andharitho ani salahaa icchinaa kudaa kodathaaraa thidathaara??
Telangana sentiment genuine ayyinappudu, telangana case strong vunnappudu.......Discussions/consultations ki Telangana vallu bhayapaduthunnaaru ane feeling yendhuku theppisthunnaaru??
Andhra/Seema vallu villains , sare voppukuntaanu. Maree KCR ni yemai anaali, KCR ye peddha Telangana drohi. KCR thalathikka chestaaalu valle kadhaa "Telangana Movement" ni peddha Comedy chesaadu National level lo. KCR gaadu, Telangana prajala image chedagoduthunnaadu ane kadhaaa........KCR-TRS ni Telangana janaalu reject chesindhi elections lo??
KCR ni Janaalu yendhuku reject chesaaru?? Veediki bhuuthulu thittadam thappa yemi raadhu.....leader ante bhuthulu thittadama? Telangana aathma guvravam improve cheyyalsina vaadu......public gaa TV lo naaku drink alavaatu vundhi, drink valla Telangana movement meedha focus cheyyaleka pothunnaa......Ee saari drink maanesthaanu, Telangana thappaka thesthaanu.......Ante KCR gaadi drink alavaatu valla Telangana state formation late ayyindhaa?? Yemiti veedu, public life lo vunde leader, yemi maatlaadaalo yemi maatlaadakuudatho kudaa theliyadhu public lo.......Telangana Prajala image veedu brashtu pattinchadam ledhaaa??
Nuvvu yentha arichi ghee pettinaaa........Democracy lo majoriy ni kaadhani yemi cheyyalemu.....Andhuke Majority janaalatho consultations jarapandi ani cheppaanu......Ledhu bhuuthulatho, violence tho, naxalism tho memu Telangana thecchukuntaam ante.........."I wish you Good Luck""
KCR meedha padi yedava kundaaa........poddhu asthamaanam andhra/seema valla meedha padi yedisthe.......Telangana formation ki meeru droham chesthaaru antha kanna yemi ledhu
Mari comedy saami......All parties including TRS are using Telangana sentiment only for their political careers and telangana vote bank anthe gaani........do you think, nijamugaa veellaki "Telangana state" form cheyyalani vundhi antaava??
Ashokuda,
ReplyDeleteYou first learn to know things said out of sarcasm/disapproval and that of anger/coldness.
Do you see how clear difference in our understanding of language is? Better just separate with out dialogue.
If you really hate KCR that much, take him away for good and do whatever you whant to? But just separate.
Idle,
ReplyDelete.... and even now
Sravan:
ReplyDeleteAnna, Telangana state formation ki okkade okkadu addu vaade "KCR"
KCR gaadi valla jarige damage antha inthaa kaadhu.........KCR gaadi penta noru yemani vipputhaado gaani, ippudu Hyderabad people are feeling insecured about "Telangana State"
Telangana State forma ayye varaku KCR noru musuko raa ante vinadu.......yekkada venaka padipothaanu yemo, malli "CM avvaleno" ane kadhaa veedi bhaadha. Kakkurthi vedhava, State form ayyithe kadhaa veedu CM ayyedhi, State form avvaali ante veedu noru muskoni vundaali.
Telangana state formation ni vandha mandhi politicians hijack chesi padesaaru........credit yevadiki pothundhaa ani.......JAC lo chuudandi pandhulu laagaa kottukuntunnaaru TV llo. Okkadiki sigguledhu, Telangana sentiment kosam Unified gaa fight cheyyaali ani theliyadhu......public gaa kottukovadam thittukovadam.
Public yemo......TV llo ee bandhulu, bhuuthulu, kottukovadaalu, thittkovadaalu tho visugetthi pothunnaaru.
Politically jobless people chetthullo "Telangana Sentiment" ni pedithe ilaaane vuntundhi.
Hitler gaadu vaaguthunnaappudu Germans anthaa vaadi matthulo vunnaaru......tharuvaathaa gaani ardham kaaledhu Hitler valla jarigina damage Germans ki. KCR ni ippudu manam aapaka pothe, tharuvaatha bhaadha padedhi maname. God bless Telangana People from these evil crooked politicians.
Idler said: "Seema may be water, but Andhra is chinthapandu. Add Tamrarind to milk -- paalu pagilipoyayi!!! :("
ReplyDeleteHmmm... So, you are ok with 'Seema Palakulu'. Now, this looks more personal to me. What did Andhra person do to you? Whatever it is, it should have been really really bad. I could not stop myself from wondering what could have happened to you!!!
Sujai said: "Thanks for the concern. We have no problem to be branded as ‘Goondas’. For most Andhras, all Telangana people are ‘Goondas’ whether KCR is in the picture or not. That’s because the only Telangana people in any Telugu movie is invariably a ‘Goonda’."
ReplyDeleteWhere did this Telugu movie comparison come from? I concede that you are an expert at using all the weapons in your arsenal.
If someone does not out rightly condemn loss of private property (Public property is bad, but this is worse), and doesn't care for others suffering, I would call him a goonda.
Few observations:
Agreed, there is huge support for separate state from 'kavulu kalakarulu' of Telangana. But then there are kavulu, kalakarulu notorious for their ubiquity. They are present during student protests, during rioting and vandalism, while politicians rallying masses and during street protests.
Agreed, there is a big student support base for separate state. But then, there are 'students for life' in Telangana. Some of the so called students look older than my uncle.
Agreed, there are a lot of peaceful and silent protesters demanding a separate state. But then there are raucous rowdy mobs threatening and scaring everyone, ready to destroy anything in their path. Unfortunately, they get most of the media coverage.
I agree its pretty much the same with Samaikya Andhra protests also. It is so sad, they want to raise this madness to higher levels in Jan.
We will not watch movies of Chiranjeevi and his family members if we are united but will go back to theaters once divided. Good. That's the way we should progress. And by the way, our opinions might not be representative of all the people of AP (TELANGANA,SEEMA & ANDHRA).
ReplyDeleteBut it does not matter because
"Mondi vaadu raaju kanna balavantudu"
Where did this Telugu movie comparison come from? I concede that you are an expert at using all the weapons in your arsenal.
ReplyDeleteIf someone does not out rightly condemn loss of private property (Public property is bad, but this is worse), and doesn't care for others suffering, I would call him a goonda.
Few observations:
Agreed, there is huge support for separate state from 'kavulu kalakarulu' of Telangana. But then there are kavulu, kalakarulu notorious for their ubiquity. They are present during student protests, during rioting and vandalism, while politicians rallying masses and during street protests.
Agreed, there is a big student support base for separate state. But then, there are 'students for life' in Telangana. Some of the so called students look older than my uncle.
Agreed, there are a lot of peaceful and silent protesters demanding a separate state. But then there are raucous rowdy mobs threatening and scaring everyone, ready to destroy anything in their path. Unfortunately, they get most of the media coverage.
I agree its pretty much the same with Samaikya Andhra protests also. It is so sad, they want to raise this madness to higher levels in Jan.
Manohar, except for criticizing the telangana movement outwardly,
Does your argument give any clue how telangan is going to develop in being united to andhra?
Where as our arguments have been based upon how telangana was loosing ground being part of AP, your entire argument is based on the condemnation of the political party and leaders associated with the movement. How many time we criticized the so called samikhyandhra politicians?
Grow up man.
It is not unhealthy to consider facts and make a judgement, even if it is against your personal opinion.
We will not watch movies of Chiranjeevi and his family members if we are united but will go back to theaters once divided. Good. That's the way we should progress. And by the way, our opinions might not be representative of all the people of AP (TELANGANA,SEEMA & ANDHRA).
ReplyDeleteBut it does not matter because
Why of all the meaningful stuff sujai has posted you were only particular about these statements which I am sure were only satirical?
Don't you have a good argument based on the real facts aother than satirical ones?
Mondi vaadu raaju kanna balavantudu"
That is apt for andhra leaders.
I should add here, mondi vadu is also rich, powerful and has majority.
Those students who are looking older than your uncles are not Vidhyarhi's ( Vidya + Arthi ), they are Vidyartha(i) ( Vidya + artha ), these *political pupils* stay at hostels, making and maintaining groups to get Artha and stay in hostels on the name of Vidya.
ReplyDelete~R
Where is the freedom of speech.
ReplyDeleteEvery body has their point of view and some are pro for Telangana movement and some are against the movement.
So every body has their own views.
So if anybody point their view and if you do not like, why are you intimidating, break their homes, cars and scaring their families…..
So please tell me, how you are different from terrorist, Taliban or any Terrorist organizations……..
Their goal is to force their believes on others, who do not agree with them…….And you are doing the same…….
Makara Sankranti - An end to Telangana antagonists
ReplyDelete'Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya', may you go higher & higher, to more & more Light and never to Darkness. This is Makar Sankranti’s message to the people of Telangana. As Surya begins its ascendancy today, so shall Telangana begin its.
Just as Lord Vishnu ended the terrors of the Asuras on this day, by finishing them off and burying their heads under the Mandara Parvata, so do we the people of Telangana need to finish the evil and exploitative forces that hold us in bondage. We have raised our voice and it has hardly made a dent in the center’s policy. We are still hearing words like “normalcy to return”, “consultative approach” from the Central leadership. The time for discussions, platitudes and negotiations is over, like Lord Vishnu’s Sudarshan Chakra, we have to sever the power fount of the exploitative anti Telangana forces. The resistance to Telangana is from two powerful forces the land mafia in Hyderabad and the Government contractors in AP. Dry the power of these two factions and the life blood of the anti Telangana forces will dry down.
First, how do we tackle the land mafia with their political, and goonda power. We have neither the money nor the gun toting armies like them, but we have is as powerful as the Sudarshan chakra, the might of our numbers and our determination and like Vishnu we need to wield it just once. Let us take one strong and decisive move, select the most visible and voluble Telangana antagonist, a highly visible example of trickery and cheating who has illegally occupied acres of prime land in Hyderabad, and lay siege to its offices and business interests and force the suspension of work. This will hit the exploiters jugular with no effect on the people and future of Telangana. We all know this business house will not have employed any person from Telangana hence if its offices are closed down the livelihood of our people is not jeopardized nor will it impact our future as the business will not be working on the regions development. Its mantra would be make money in Hyderabad and develop Vijayawada or Vizag. This will give out the message, loud and clear to the others that it is time for them to pack their bags and go.
Coming to the Government contractors, how do we tackle them. This is where our brothers and sisters in Government and Administration need to pitch in. You will have to see to it, that no contractor except if it is from Telangana is awarded any project. And if it has completed or is working on any project ensure the money due to them is delayed indefinitely. I am sure we can make this happen by using the Government machinery to delay approvals and payments. Once they realize that Hyderabad and Telangana is no longer the goose that lays the golden egg, their antipathy and resistance to our state will die a natural death.
This will require firm and decisive action on our part, and if we hesitate any longer the time will be lost and we will have to wait for another 50 years for a Makar Sankranti like todays. Let us remember we have lost all and there is nothing more to lose. Now, there is just one way to go, UP. Telangana will be born not with a whimper but a roar.
Jai Telangana
Jai Hind
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