Saturday, March 06, 2010

Telangana 52: Curious case of MIM


While most of Telangana irrespective of their caste, religion, political affiliation, is supporting the cause of Telangana, one man and one party stand out.  It is Akbaruddin Owaisi leading AIMIM who enjoys massive support from Muslims of old city Hyderabad.  He has now made his stance clear against separate Telangana after maintaining silence on this matter for many months.

So, why does he stand out?  To understand his stance, we should go back in time and open our closets.

A little history

Telangana has too many internal problems.  The problem they have with Andhras is just one of them.  This is not very similar to India under British.  Though India had many internal problems, most of them could be solved only when British left.  Telanganas want to get away from the rule of Andhras hoping that we fix many of our internal problems.

Telangana was one of the highly feudal societies in the world.  Nehru once referred to Hyderabad state as ‘ancient feudal relic’.  Zamindars, Zagirdars, Doras ruled the region with an iron fist.  Bonded-labor, slavery, and deep-rooted caste system are endemic to this region.  In addition to these problems, Telangana Hindus have a checkered history with Telangana Muslims.

Telangana gets its distinct character because of Nizam Rule and yet its love-hate relationship with Nizam and his legacy hasn’t been exactly romantic.  It was mostly tumultuous.  The last Nizam was an autocratic and ruthless ruler. His regime instilled and perpetuated the feudal system.  His administration grew by taxing its citizens heavily and keeping a close check on its zamindars.  

Muslims of Hyderabad State fell into two categories.  An extremely small section of foreign origin Muslim rulers accompanied by high caste Hindu converts; and a huge population of Muslims who were converted from lower caste Hindus.  Life for these lower caste Muslims was not very different from lower caste Hindus except that they escaped certain harsh treatment from the King in certain cases.

Telangana has a history of many peasant revolts against their Nizams.  More than 70 such revolts are recorded.  In 1940s, the ordinary men and women of Telangana, including Muslims from villages, took up arms to fight the Nizam.  It was backed by communist ideology.  Telangana continues to owe its culture to such rebellions.  Some of the current ballads still carry the colors and hues from the times of those struggles against Nizam.   

After India became independent, there were three kingdoms which had not joined Indian Union.  The kings had had not made up their mind.  Those were Kashmir, Junagadh, and Hyderabad.  Hyderabad was the largest kingdom in India, larger than even the island of Great Britain.   The city of Hyderabad was renowned in the world and was considered one of the greatest cities.  While Kashmir was predominantly Muslim ruled by a Hindu King, Junagadh and Hyderabad were predominantly Hindu ruled by Muslim Kings.  

Whereas it was a foregone conclusion that Kashmir would go to Pakistan because it was predominantly Muslim and it was right on the border,  India did not allow Junagadh and Hyderabad to join Pakistan or stay independent.  The reasons were two-fold.  They were predominantly Hindu, and their kingdoms were surrounded by India on all sides making it impractical to be independent.  

Osman Ali Khan, Asaf Jah VII, also known as Nizam of Hyderabad toyed with the idea of being an independent country for almost a year.  He wanted to join the Commonwealth without having to join India or Pakistan.  Nizam even approached UN to broker a deal so that he could remain independent.  Meanwhile, Qasim Razvi, the leader of Razakars, President of Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen (MIM), and a strong advisor of Nizam started a campaign to join Pakistan, against the wishes of most Hindus and some Muslims who were keen on joining India.  Communist uprising had armed the villagers to take on Nizam.  To suppress the revolt from Indian peasants, Qasim Razvi used a 150,000 strong Razakars to brutalize people of Telangana.  Razakars went about killing many Hindus in the kingdom, sparing the Muslim population.

Sardar Vallabhai Patel, the Iron Man of India, used the opportunity to send his forces from various directions to annex Hyderabad.  It was a swift movement.  The forces of Nizam did not stand a chance.   The Indian forces defeated Nizam on 17 September 1948, nearly a year after India became independent.  On 18 September Nizam succumbed.  Nehru left a small pay package for Nizam, who eventually left India for Turkey.  Qasim Razvi was jailed.  MIM was banned because of its position on joining Pakistan and for creating Razakars.

After integration into India, Telangana Hindus avenged the Razakar brutality by targeting ordinary Telangana Muslims.  They went about killing them in various parts of Hyderabad state.  These Muslims were mostly converts from lower caste Hindus who were living closely with Hindus.  The regions of Sholapur, Karnataka and some parts of Telangana saw extreme brutality.  Many of these Muslims fled those regions and took refuge in the old city of Hyderabad.   That’s how we got very high concentration of Muslims in the old city of Hyderabad.

After few years, All India Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen (AIMIM) came out of the vestiges of MIM representing the Muslims who are now living in the old city of Hyderabad.   Salahuddin Owaisi, son of Abdul Wahed Owaisi who revived Majlis, has slowly transformed this party away from the tarnished image of Razakar carnage and support of Pakistan. 

The old city of Hyderabad has become the bastion of Majlis, and AIMIM has ensured this population is kept aloof from mainstream society and politics, thereby ensuring their unwavering loyalty.   Salahuddin Owaisi became MP 6 times and his son continues to win.   The appeasement and neglect policies of Andhra Pradesh further helped in ghettoization of the old city. 

The Hindus and Muslims of Hyderabad did not live in harmony for many decades.  Many riots broke out during the first forty years.   The last major riot took place in 1990.  The most curious aspect of these riots is that they took place mostly during Congress rule and not during TDP rule.  Also, after 1990 the riots almost stopped – they didn’t take place even after Babri Masjid demolition.

However, the Muslims in the rest of Telangana do not carry the same aloofness as that of Hyderabadi Muslims.  They have remained a part of the mainstream society and politics; and the bonhomie with Hindus prevails.   Telanganas continue to celebrate common festivals of Hindus and Muslims unlike in most parts of India. 

Telangana agitation: Muslims

AIMIM’s stance on Telangana is shared by the people of old city in Hyderabad.  According to a poll conducted recently even before AIMIM made its stance clear, nearly 68% of Muslims living in old city opposed separate Telangana.   That opposition could be high now after AIMIM has spelled its stance.

The numbers in entire Telangana show a different story – nearly 85% of Muslims in the region support separate Telangana, including majority support from new city of Hyderabad.  In the recent Telangana agitation, many Muslims intellectuals, student groups, political outfits have all professed their support for a separate Telangana, while AIMIM is the only party that continues to stay aloof holding its vote bank close to itself.  Also, the fact that BJP endorses Telangana Movement is not something that AIMIM likes and cites it as a reason for the opposition.

It’s funny that while some Telanganas and many Andhras fear that Muslims would dominate in the new Telangana and use it as a reason for opposing its formation, AIMIM has cited the upsurge of Hindutva to oppose separate Telangana. 

Status of Muslims in Telangana

As Sachar Committee has reported, it is clear that Muslims in Telangana have been discriminated against like in rest of India.  They are marginalized from many spheres.  They continue to be the poorest, closer to SC/STs.

It is the duty of all Telanganas to ensure the Muslims of Telangana are better represented, that they join the mainstream, through education and employment.   Reservations for Muslims in education and employment as prescribed by the Ranganath Mishra Commission are a must to alleviate the current situation. 

Telangana Hindu-Muslim issues

The history of Hindu and Muslims in Telangana is a problem of Telanganas.  They have to deal with them on their.  People from outside, who have absolutely no clue what this checkered history has been should avoid making vacuous and inane statements.  People like Mohan Babu, who are absolutely clueless on the topic, have said that Hyderabad belongs to Muslims and that we should leave the city to them.  That foolish actor does not realize one thing.  We don’t claim cities to a religion or a caste; we claim it to a region.  We don’t say Chennai belongs to Hindus, we say it belongs to Tamils.  We don’t say Pune belongs to Brahmins, we say it belongs to Marathas.  Here Tamils, Marathas or Telanganas comprise a region, and that region includes all kinds of people, including Hindus, Muslims, lower caste, upper caste men and women. 

Andhras and Hyderabadi Muslims

Some detractors have commented that MIM is the only sane voice from Telangana.  This comes from Andhras who don’t understand ABCD of Muslims and their lifestyles.  Most of Telangana is quite heterogeneous where Muslims live in every village and towns, maintaining their distinct identity, though living close to Hindus.   Telangana culture has its roots in Hinduism and Islam.

Why did MIM become so dear to Andhras all of a sudden? That’s because Andhras want to find the chinks in the armor of Telangana agitation.  This newfound love is a momentary reaction to find flaws in Telangana Movement, not a real affection to Hyderabadi Muslims or MIM.  

Every such word of endearment should be seen with caution.  While proposing joint-capital Andhras ask Telanganas to take the old city while they retain the new city.  They ridicule Telanganas for the influence of Urdu on their dialect.   

It is clear that Muslims of Telangana have lost out in this merger, as much as lower castes of Telanganas.  No Muslim of Telangana should trust such overtures of new-found love from Andhras who have a track record of completely suppressing and oppressing Telanganas, and that included Muslims of Telangana.  

Political angle: What does Owaisi want?

In the order of preference this is what Owaisi wants:
1. Separate Hyderabad
2. Separate Telangana
3. United Andhra Pradesh

Option 1: If Hyderabad becomes a Union Territory, it is bound to become a state very soon.  In Hyderabad, Muslims constitute nearly 40% making it second state in India after Jammu and Kashmir with a substantial Muslim population.   In the state of Hyderabad, Owaisi will be the king or the king-maker, the kind of power none of his predecessors or none of Muslims politicians in India have enjoyed so far.  Option 2: A separate Telangana would provide more sops, incentives and better representation to Muslims in Hyderabad but it is still not as desirable as option 1.  Option 3: It is the status quo and the least desirable option for Owaisi.  He doesn’t stand to gain anything from this.

A separate Hyderabad (option 1) is possible only through support of United Andhra lobby.  Therefore he supports United Andhra and opposes separate Telangana.  To a naive observer, it looks like he is choosing option 3, but he is actually aiming for option 1 knowing very well that option 3 is now invalid.  So, if the United Andhra lobby fails and separate Telangana happens, then he will get option 2 without even trying for it. 

MIM and Telangana Movement

Though nearly 85% of Muslims in Telangana support the Telangana cause, exclusion of Hyderabadi Muslims is not in the best interests of future Telangana.   Keeping old city of Hyderabad aloof from regional politics and aspirations is not in the best interest of Hyderabadi Muslims.   Telangana should see an inclusive growth where all people including Muslims of old city Hyderabad are prosperous.  We need to create a harmonious society based on inclusive growth.

The current leaders of Telangana agitation should ensure they approach Mr Owaisi and get him to back the movement.   They should make overtures to Mr. Owaisi so that he abandons his opposition to separate Telangana to join the movement wholeheartedly.

501 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Owaisi's are feudal shitbags they were in power in all old city constituencies and what is the condition of old city now.
    They run a dynasty,they are likes dung beatles that thrive on communal tension and gundagiri.

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  3. Sujai bhai,

    Kutte ki dum, tedi ki tedi.
    Owaisi will never change.
    as long as Congress and TDP tell him, he is special, he represents special people and appeases him, he and his community in old city will never join mainstream

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  4. You can blurt out whatever you want but as long as Telangana is formed with BJP's support Telangana is not going to be formed period.Muslims feel insecure in Telangana whose very basis is rooted in anti-Muslim,anti-Razzakar movement.First convince MIM and muslims of Hyderabad and then continue your movement.IF at all Telangana is going to be a reality,Hyderabad city state also will be a reality.Telangana can have Warangal or Karimnagar as capital ,that would be a boost to the backward areas,you'll have more opportunities.It is true,as you have aptly pointed out, that there were communal riots in Hyderabad during Congress regimes and Telangana CMs-Chenna Reddy and Anjaiah but not during TD rule.So it shows how Andhra rulers understand the pulse of Telangana Muslims.So you've said it.United AP or Hyderabad Territory!Let's see.If MIM is against Mulayam,Lallu,Mamta even UP and Bihar Congress will turn against the bill in parliament.Don't underestimate the strength of Muslims.

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  5. Just as Telangana need liberation from Andhras,Hyderabad Muslims need liberation from Telangana would be rulers.Separate Hyderabad is the only way out.Muslims dont trust the Telanganites whose dislike towards the former is ingrained in their blood.Nobody would believe in sops or incentives from Telangana.It is a question of self-respect and self-rule.Everybody had enough.You fight for Separate Telangana and we will fight for Separate Hyderabad.

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  6. When Hyderabad was liberated did you sign a 'Gentlemen Agreement' with Muslims?You have liberated and pushed the Muslims to the corner and never cared about them.Nobody sought the opinion.Now Telangana leaders and activist want to give sops and incentives.What a joke? 90% of the lands people in Telangana are enjoying belong to Nizam and Wakf now harly 0.001% lands are under muslim farmers i,if at all there are any.

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  7. nayeem:

    You can blurt out whatever you want but as long as Telangana is formed with BJP's support Telangana is not going to be formed period.

    Would you refrain from driving on a road that was constructed during NDA government?

    Muslims feel insecure in Telangana whose very basis is rooted in anti-Muslim,anti-Razzakar movement.

    Are you saying that formation of Telangana is based in anti-Muslim, anti-Razakar movement? Name one slogan from supporters of Telangana that has been anti-Muslim.

    If what you say is true, why are Muslims from rest of Telangana participating in Telangana movement?

    Muslims dont trust the Telanganites whose dislike towards the former is ingrained in their blood.

    Are you saying that Muslims living in Telangana are different from Telanganites? Are you subscribing to the theory that Muslims don’t have allegiance to any region or nation but only to their religion?

    When Hyderabad was liberated did you sign a 'Gentlemen Agreement' with Muslims?

    We did not. Gentlemen’s Agreement did not sign an agreement with upper caste Hindus, lower caste Hindus, men and women. It signed an agreement with people of two regions. However, there was a promise to have a Muslim minister in the cabinet.

    Do you subscribe to the theory that Muslims of Hyderabad do not consider themselves part of Telangana, but owe their allegiance to their religion?

    You have liberated and pushed the Muslims to the corner and never cared about them.Nobody sought the opinion.Now Telangana leaders and activist want to give sops and incentives. What a joke?

    I understand. What a joke. Nobody sought the opinion of lower castes of Telangana either. Nobody sought the opinion of women of Telangana either. But I guess it’s a good time to participate and voice your opinion. It’s a good time to lay the ground work for the new state of Telangana.

    90% of the lands people in Telangana are enjoying belong to Nizam and Wakf

    Do you subscribe to the theory that the lands that belonged to kings and princes of various princely states, like Kashmir, Gwalior, Mysore, etc, should be given back to the families? Or should we go through land reforms?

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  8. Sujai,
    May be you are a little presumptuous on what Mr. Owaisi wants. I don’t think he wants Telangana at all. MIM has clearly spelt out the concerns about religious discrimination due to stronger influence of BJP in Telangana areas. You are correct that Muslims were brutally persecuted and driven into old city after the fall of Hyderabad in 1948. MIM has good reasons to believe that they will continue to be persecuted if the new state forms. Once the Andhras are gone, we will be next targets. After all, it will be very easy for TRS to prove with historical facts that we are also colonizers of Hyderabad that need to be kicked out.
    You talk about Muslims in other parts of Telangana, but how many Muslim leaders were allowed to emerge from Telangana regions in the last 50+ years....ZERO. You say that Muslims are poor and their living conditions are like SC/ST. But, SC/ST have reservations and representation in assembly and parliament. What about the poor Muslims? They have no representation. When some poor Muslims in Nizamabad were recently attacked by a pro-Telangana mob, who spoke for them in the assembly? Not the MLA or minister from Nizamabad, but Mr. Owaisi. What vote bank gain did he get for speaking for them? None, but that is why we trust him to fight for our rights. He has a strong voice and influence in the current state of Andhra Pradesh. BJP is a non-entity in AP. He does not want to risk it if Telangana forms. The only Muslim voice fighting for Muslim rights in Telangana in the state assembly and national parliament belongs to MIM. You can insult us by calling us ghetto dwellers and close-minded people, but we can live with safety and pride in the old city, thanks to MIM.

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  9. @ MIM

    It's stupid to say that Muslims dont have representation in Hyderabad all of the old city MLA's are muslim.If u elect shit bags like owaisis ur shittin urself.

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  10. Suaji, you wrote -
    "AIMIM’s stance on Telangana is shared by the people of old city in Hyderabad. According to a poll conducted recently even before AIMIM made its stance clear, nearly 68% of Muslims living in old city opposed separate Telangana. That opposition could be high now after AIMIM has spelled its stance."

    When the opposition is so clear from the people and the people's representatives of Hyderabad, why are telanganas forcibly trying to merge Hyderbad with Telangana?


    chomskyist,
    It looks like you just came out of a TRS brainwashing session or ABVP indoctrination class. Chill out. If you can't do that, go to the old city and repeat your rants...you will get the response you need. Don't shit all over this blog.

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  11. MIM:

    You talk about Muslims in other parts of Telangana, but how many Muslim leaders were allowed to emerge from Telangana regions in the last 50+ years....ZERO. You say that Muslims are poor and their living conditions are like SC/ST. But, SC/ST have reservations and representation in assembly and parliament. What about the poor Muslims? They have no representation.

    I am a strong proponent of reservations for Muslims based on Ranganath Mishra Commission. I also believe that Telangana formation should address the plight of Muslims in Telangana. Muslims leaders participating in the current movement should press for such representation. How can you do that if you shun the movement?

    Hyderabad Muslims fighting for a separate Hyderabad excludes nearly 75% of Muslims who continue to live outside Hyderabad. What about them? Who will fight for them?

    You can insult us by calling us ghetto dwellers and close-minded people, but we can live with safety and pride in the old city, thanks to MIM.

    I did not insult you nor did I call anyone a ghetto-dweller. You have to read it in the context.

    Can you accommodate all Muslim population of Telangana in the old city of Hyderabad? Is that the plan? What is the right way to fight for better representation for Muslims? On this blog, I have been consistently saying that more group identities need to be recognized by Indian democracy, including religion. There are ways to recognize a group identity for religion and take measures to accommodate their requests. For that we need to fight, the way whole of Telangana (except old city Hyderabadi Muslims) is fighting.

    I do understand that MIM is the lone voice standing for Muslims in Hyderabad. But standing for Muslims is not going to solve the problem of Muslims unless they get their representation.

    According to me, the current Telangana agitation is an opportunity. MIM should fight in the current agitation to get the required protections and safeguards in the new state of Telangana. Opposing the Telangana movement is not going to help the cause of Muslims of old city Hyderabad.

    If MIM is opposing Telangana, I think it is being myopic. If I was the leader of MIM, I would endorse Telangana agitation, and make sure all parties agree and abide to the safeguards, protections and reservations for Muslims in Telangana, thereby becoming a voice for all Muslims of Telangana, not just Muslims of old city Hyderabad.

    Think about it.

    Look at histories of people’s movements and see how certain groups got what they wanted by being party to the struggles.

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  12. //"I am a strong proponent of reservations for Muslims based on Ranganath Mishra Commission."//

    I admire your for this stance. MIM is leading the fight on this issue.

    //"I also believe that Telangana formation should address the plight of Muslims in Telangana."//

    I have not seen any indication of facts that backup this statement.

    "//Hyderabad Muslims fighting for a separate Hyderabad excludes nearly 75% of Muslims who continue to live outside Hyderabad. What about them? Who will fight for them?''//

    Hyderbad Muslims are not fighting for any separate state. That seems to be a figment of your imagination. They beleive they have better influence and stronger reperesentation in the current setup due to the factors I previously mentioned.

    "//If I was the leader of MIM, I would endorse Telangana agitation, and make sure all parties agree and abide to the safeguards, protections and reservations for Muslims in Telangana."//

    There is no chance of BJP agreeing to any safeguards for Muslims in Telangana. How can MIM support a scenario that transforms BJP from a non-entity to a strong Hindutva presence in Hyderabad?

    Think about it.

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  13. MIM:

    When the opposition is so clear from the people and the people's representatives of Hyderabad, why are telanganas forcibly trying to merge Hyderbad with Telangana?

    I wouldn’t want to force any people to join Telangana. However, Hyderabad happens to be deep inside Telangana and it is historically and culturally a part of Telangana.

    Creating a state or Union Territory for Hyderabad inside Telangana without the support of Telangana is an impractical idea. Such experiments have never worked. Berlin during Cold War was an expensive and futile experiment.

    There are many practical solutions from contemporary history to the problem when an extremely small percentage of people have decided not want to join the big region that is getting separated. If those pockets happen to be on the border, they could be constituted as separate entities. However if those pockets lie deep inside, as Hyderabad does, then the people who do not actually support the separation have an option to migrate to the regions that they feel safe. Otherwise, if each pocket, each village was asked whether they agree to separation or not, we would get a map with full of holes, making it impractical to implement. Regional contiguity is an extremely important consideration when creating new nations or states, though not many people talk about it.

    Reading upon how India was partitioned during Independence could give you insights into these practical problems and how they were addressed. There were towns and villages which were predominantly Hindu but became part of Pakistan.

    A separate Hyderabad is not a practical solution and according to me it will never happen. Even if the Indian government acts foolishly and creates a separate Hyderabad, it will never work out, just because the city is deep inside Telangana.

    Unfortunately the Muslims of old city Hyderabad are being led by a leader who is not practical in the current agitation. It would be a lost opportunity if Muslims do not form a united voice and ask for better representations and safeguards while the new state is being formed.

    History gives us many lessons. Nizam and his government thought they could actually create a separate country deep inside India which was not a practical solution. It was not supported by any country in the UN. Ultimately, such a foolish belief caused a rift between Hindus and Muslims. According to me, Owaisi should not run after another foolish dream.

    My words come with concern. I tend to use harsh criticism and extreme analogies to drive the point. Being sensitive about every analogy that I provide will not result in anything constructive.

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  14. MIM:

    I have not seen any indication of facts that backup this statement.

    Though some of us are pushing for inclusiveness, it has to come from Muslim leaders. This is the opportunity. Don’t lose this opportunity. So many historical mistakes can be corrected if the leaders of MIM and other Muslim parties come together and push for better representation across entire Telangana, not just old city Hyderabad.

    Hyderbad Muslims are not fighting for any separate state. That seems to be a figment of your imagination. They beleive they have better influence and stronger reperesentation in the current setup due to the factors I previously mentioned.

    Telangana is an eventuality. It is bound to happen. There is no fun resisting the change. Pining for the current setup is no longer a practical idea.

    According to me, MIM is reading this wrong and is about to lose a golden opportunity to set things right for Muslims of Telangana.

    Just because BJP supports the cause does not mean Telangana will instantly vote BJP to power. Instead of opposing separate Telangana (which is bound to happen), old city Hyderabadi Muslims should become active members of the current movement and make sure the interests of Muslims are protected.

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  15. //"However if those pockets lie deep inside, as Hyderabad does, then the people who do not actually support the separation have an option to migrate to the regions that they feel safe. "//

    Where do we migrate to? There is no other "safe" place. You already mentioned Hyderbad provided safe haven for people escaping persecution in Telangana. So, should we be obligated to support this movement based on a threat?

    You unintentionally reinforced a concern of Hyderbadi Muslims - they would be the next targets to be forced out of Hyderabad if Telangana separates.

    I think India has seen enough bloody mass migrations of minorities from partition to Kashmir pandits. So, I beleive (may be incorrectly) that majority of Indians are instinctively uncomfortable about rhetorics involving forcing and uprooting people based on their religious or regional identities. This is probably a reason why there is no real support for Telangana movement in rest of the country.

    Sujai - I know you probably did not mean to suggest Muslims from Hyderbad should migrate if Telangana forms, but I hope you see the point I am trying to make.

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  16. //Are you saying that Muslims living in Telangana are different from Telanganites? Are you subscribing to the theory that Muslims don’t have allegiance to any region or nation but only to their religion? //
    I'm glad you brought out his discussion.Hey don't say anything about Owaisi he is an oasis in the desert of exploitation.
    Muslims pledge their allegiance to the nation but NOT TO THE REGION.Ask anybody in India,nobody cares.We don't care.IT is a struggle for existence which is the by product of suppression.Muslims in Andhra are no different from that in Telangana or Rayalaseema or that of North India,suppression is common.Regional allegiance is not for empty stomachs my dear friend.When Hyderabad state was formed Muslims were a majority in govt services and educational institutions.They had so many opportunities at their disposal.Where are the opportunities now? Muslims are pushed into doing menial chores like punctures and vending meat.Coming to the plight of Muslims in Telangana.They are coaxed into supporting Telangana or else they are in dire straits.You don't want to buy enmity with your neighbour.Nobody listens to us.Coming to your question about the Telangana having its basis in Anti-Razzakar movement.Is it not true that the Telangana region is based on the premise that it was and is different from rest of AP in that you were subjected to the Nisam rule for so many centuries? Just go to the old city and see the tension when there is a Telangana bandh .If Telangana is formed there would be more tensions and animosities.Where is the protection?
    Just a you say Telangana is a people's movement,not being part of Telangana too is a people's movement.Come to Old City and talk to the people to find out what they want.
    Somebody said about representation of Muslims from old city.Going by the same token as you guys who inspite of enjoying plum posts claim that there is no self-rule how can you say the same thing back to us.What a hypocrisy ? Did any Muslim occupy any good post in any regimes?
    About land reforms ,is it enough if you people distribute land among yourself and talk about princely states.Do you see any Muslim farmers? The wakf lands around Hyderabad were occupied illegally. .

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  17. Kudos to Sujai for taking up the 'uncomfortable' topic that you seem to have avoided so far for obvious reasons...

    However, all ur responses and reasoning smack of arrogance and subtle threats to bring MIM and muslims into submission to ur agenda, that unsurprisingly u attack United Andhra supporters of.

    "We don’t claim cities to a religion or a caste; we claim it to a region."

    Thats ur problem. We claim cities and towns to a country, to whose constitution and sovereignity we all owe allegiance to. If u say Hyd belongs to one region, it also belongs to the state and to the country. I can work, buy home, stay in Chennai or any corner of the country. Similarly, any Indian citizen can claim Hyd as their city. Get ur basics right.

    "Most of Telangana is quite heterogeneous.... Telangana culture has its roots in Hinduism and Islam."

    Telangana culture, if at all it exists, is the bastardization of Telugu, by forcing Urdu as medium of education in Telangana and thereby forcing the colloquial Telugu language to change. Besides mosques, where do u see Islamic architecture in Telangana? Also, are there any 'Telangana culture' of music or arts, where Islamic influence can be seen that were influenced by Nizam? To say that atleast 2000 years of Hindu culture did not create any strong ethos and mere 200 years of Nizam rule has created COMPOSITE Telangana culture is ridiculous at best and pathetic at worst. U r kidding urself to claim 'Telangana culture' has its roots in Hinduism and Islam. Telangana script, as far as I know, is still Dravidian Telugu and I am not aware of any Islamic influences on festivals. U r deliberately trying to force Muslims to see something that only exists in ur imaginary Telangana world.

    "It is clear that Muslims of Telangana have lost out in this merger, as much as lower castes of Telanganas."

    Why ignore the suffering of Northern Andhra and rayalaseema? Are they NOT ur Indian brothers? Ur sudden love for Muslims is only because they are sizable enough to be decisive. If they are 5% or less, u would give a damn in ur blog like Christians, Parsis, Anglo Indians etc do NOT find a mention. Muslims all over the state are in a similar condition as rest of the country. To say that they lost more because of United state is disingenuious and lie that will NOT find a favor with them.

    "No Muslim of Telangana should trust such overtures of new-found love from Andhras who have a track record of completely suppressing and oppressing Telanganas, and that included Muslims of Telangana."

    Muslim of Telangana will not trust what u say or I say. He looks at the condition of muslims in other parts of state and country and makes a decision. What proof do u have that the Muslims in Telangana suffered from suppression and oppression? In the new Telangana, they will be the losers as their education levels are lower and u guys will occupy ALL local jobs even though they are 40% in the city. Do u have a reason why that will NOT happen? Andhra rulers especially NTR, YSR and CBN have kept the city free from riots and provided various benefits to them that Muslims appreciate such as Haj tours etc. All were focusing on vote banks but that does not mean Telangana muslims were oppressed.

    "In the order of preference this is what Owaisi wants:"

    Did he tell u this? If u think he prefers separate Telangana, u r dreaming. His statements and stand are pretty consistent. Ur statement of 85% outside Hyd is without proof. Did u do ANY survey before and after MIM spelled out its stand? MIM does not have any reps in other parts of state due to tacit understanding and agreement with Congress.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Sujai..
    "Keeping old city of Hyderabad aloof from regional politics.... based on inclusive growth."

    This is the arrogance I am talking about. U want to 'INCLUDE' them even though they donot want to. Why dont u let them take a decision before taking their inclusion for granted? Now, r u the big brother and ur little brother does not have self-respect anymore? U didnt even get the state and u r talking about inclusion etc etc. This shows lack of understanding of cultural sensitivities and dominating mindset that u accuse Andhra leaders and people of.

    "They should make overtures to Mr. Owaisi...."

    Overtures are already made... 15% from KCR pocket, Urdu second official language etc. U want to hand over all land to wakf boards and give them reservation in govt jobs and educational institutions based on their share of population?? I remember... u want the state first and then u will talk about incentives, right? Tell it to the brothers and see what they tell u.

    ReplyDelete
  19. //Owaisi's are feudal shitbags they were in power in all old city constituencies and what is the condition of old city now.
    They run a dynasty,they are likes dung beatles that thrive on communal tension and gundagiri.//
    Don't dare say that.Hey that's what happens when the gundas have a free hand trying to instigate and exploit old city Muslims.Owaisi dynasty is lot better than your KCR's dynasty.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Nayeem and MIM are not even who they are pretending to be! IP check please :)!!

    ReplyDelete
  21. //
    Creating a state or Union Territory for Hyderabad inside Telangana without the support of Telangana is an impractical idea. Such experiments have never worked. Berlin during Cold War was an expensive and futile experiment. //
    The answer to that is Art 3.The opinion of region that want to separate is the only one that matters just like you keep saying
    opinion of the people of Telangana only matters but that of Seemandhra doesn' matter.If Center is bound to give away Telangana ,separate Hyderabad city-state is inevitable. Fazil Ali commission advocated the creation of Bombay city as a centrally administered territory in 1955.Therefore that situation is possible. It is utter foolishness and recklessness on part of Telangana leaders to embark on the agitation without seeking the opinion of significant minorites who are major stakeholders in state and national politics .

    ReplyDelete
  22. The more I see Sujai's opinions on the ways and means of Telangana formation, the more I see desparation to somehow prove that life in Telangana region prior to 1956 was golden, each group was rich in culture, people lived harmoniously, practising their arts, celebrating their culture, people were satisfied with the system... Until, Nehru united them with Andhras because of diabolical schemes by Andhras to 'colonially' dominate and culturally assassinate the 'rich' lifestyle of Telangana. Then, everything started falling apart, people started losing their jobs, villages etc. Even though Telangana villages did not have water and literacy was less than 10%, Andhra villagers and educated people came, bought lands and evicted people from jobs, businesses, generated babies to populate the region and shift 'everything' to Andhra in a GRAND scheme... MLAs and MPs in Telangana were weak, meek and gullible by crafty and rich Andhra politicans. All Andhra regions were being developed faster than Shanghai and Korea along with Rayalaseema. Rayalaseema leaders, in this grand scheme, agreed to divert everything to Andhra region first as they have the excuse of not flowing water thru their territory.

    PVN a telangana leader was weak and innocent till he became PM in 1991 and at the same time became a United Andhra supporter. He became crafty overnight and switched sides. He would NOT do anything in 1990s as PM as he was sold out to Andhras. PVN was the Home minister when Sikhs were massacred and was PM when Babri was demolished. He could survive 5 years but could NOT do anything for Telangana. Of course, Andhra politicians continued to buy PVN and other top politicians to protect their interests. Somewhere, it had to end and it led to the Buddha of Telangana, KCR, who would lead Sujai and other followers to enlightenment of glorious Nizam rule and celebrated Telangana culture, replete with rich sufi tradition, islamic Hindu fusion architecture and festivities.

    ReplyDelete
  23. ABVP and MIM are like two stock market traders who are hedging their bets by using puts and Options....

    There will be more convoluted logics in future by MIM and ABVP /RSS sanghi's

    ReplyDelete
  24. Sujai ,

    unlike you said ,It is splitting hairs on the difference on T -Muslims and Hyderabad Muslims...

    I am sure none of the T-muslims have joined ABVP or Bajrangi cadres ..

    They have been totally left out in these political bickerings....

    and communism/Maoism will not go well with orthodox muslims..who are more in Number in T-areas...

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  27. Prasad,

    you're right. thats what i have been stating for a week now. there is a drastic change in the tone of sujai. initially it was logic, then sentiment, then arrogance, then exhilaration. now i see him getting desperate. this is the tone of someone who is about to lose.

    i see a lot of patterns. people like sujai and nitin harkara, dharmesh reddy, kumaraswamy, kishore nanda (these people have similar blogs etc) all sound the same.

    These are all people who were bright in school. they got thru eamcet but did not clear JEE. so they spent their college downgrading the iits and iitians.
    They were good at speaking/writing/compering/debating and considered themselves superior to all the others in college. They would stand aloof. then they did not get into the iims. so the iims are useless institutes. they get admission into some 3rd level US univ. they are shocked to see so many 'incompetent' people largely telugus and a lot of them from 'andhra' in the univ. it undermines their own competency. unable to accept the reality they find the enemy in the andhras. in their own lives they were never affected by the andhras. they had access to good quality english education, enough to lead a comfortable life thru college and access to facilities that many indians can never hope to get. none of these guys were ever victims of the so called andhra colonization.
    children of employees who may have lost out in their careers in the 50's and 60's, these guys have been brainwashed into thinking that the merger caused their parents/uncles to lead middle class lives while andhras became rich.

    They continue to see the 50-100 andhra businessmen who are rich but not the 50-100 crores who are poor.

    I see the same thinking in all of them. their own classmates from telangana used to look at them with some vague feeling. these types were considered 'different'.
    'alag personality.

    just as during their school/ college days they could not reconcile to others doing better, even now in their careers they let their personality traits/weaknesses direct their lives.

    There is nothing abnormal in this. it is a common trait among humans. we just happen to be on the blog of one such person.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Nayeem:

    Muslims pledge their allegiance to the nation but NOT TO THE REGION. Ask anybody in India,nobody cares.

    So you are saying you don’t care whether you are in Hyderabad state, Andhra Pradesh, Telangana or Andhra State. So, why oppose formation of Telangana since you don’t care where you are as long as you are inside India?

    Just a you say Telangana is a people's movement,not being part of Telangana too is a people's movement.

    So where do you want to live? Outside Telangana? Or on an island inside Telangana?

    I understand that plight of Muslims is as worse as the plight of SC/STs in the region. So what is your plan to action to rectify it? Hold onto old city Hyderabad as your bastion? How many Muslims can you accommodate in that bastion? What about those Muslims who live outside old city Hyderabad? What is your plan of action for them?

    ReplyDelete
  29. //Nayeem(even if its ur real name) U dont sound like a muslim or atleast a hyderabadi.
    U sound sound suspiciously close to a andhra settler arsehole.
    (Ur lack of using atleast little urdu)//
    //@ Andhra arseholes alias Nayeem,MIM

    U dont have to pretend to be a Muslim to engage in debate. That shows ur lack of ur andhra self respect.U will even pretend to be a Hijra when we discuss about Transsexuals//

    What the bloody hell you blurt out.How dare you use invectives against me, you stupid pimp.How dare you say I'm not a muslim or a hyderabadi.Do you know the sound of a muslim.Don't drag this at the religous level.I need not be close to anybody "settler" to write what I know .Have you lived in old city and do you know what it means to be there and study.Do you even know the place names in Hyderabad old city.Have you heard of Engine Bowli or Chatrinaka or Shalibanda.They are your version of 'Pakistan'.You damn idiots dare even in your dreams to venture there..
    You mind your language,you bloody scumbag.Don't deride at personal level.Sujai should not allow ppl to use swear words just because they don't like one's view point..You want to see the might of Muslims and Hyderabad ,bark the same in Old City.How dare you offend in the name of religion...Do you meant to say the muslims don't know anything other than to hurl invectives. This show the professionalism among guys like you.Bloody idiots like you cannot take constructive criticism and you say you are fighting for a state.I can use my choicest swear words but I really admire Sujai and his blog and his perspective and don't want to besmirch it more.I want to focus only on what I think is reality. What the dickens did i say to offend you,bloody sucker scumbag.I'm educated and know its importance,you don't.I've personally met Noam Chomsky you loser,have you?

    ReplyDelete
  30. MIM and nayeem:

    I will ask you few questions.

    1. Do you support separate Telangana?
    2. Do you support separate Hyderabad?
    3. Do you support united Andhra Pradesh?
    4. Do you think SC/STs deserve statehood based on their caste-identity? Why?
    5. Do you think women deserve statehood based on their sex-identity? Why?
    6. Do you believe the plight of Muslims can be addressed within the legal confines of Indian Constitution? If so, what are the key steps?
    7. Do you think Hyderabadi Muslims form a different identity compared to Muslims outside old city? Or do you share the same plight as other Muslims?
    8. Do you think Muslims of Hyderabad are culturally and historically linked to Telangana? or do they form a separate group?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Sujai
    U guys did not seek their opinion nor u considered their approval b4 seeking t state. Now u cannot say separate island and imaginary stuff. They can as well oppose separating from rest of the state.
    Muslims of India can stay anywhere they want. Why wud u care? If it was ur genuine concern, u wud have brought them along b4 forming JAC. U r getting really desperate. I marvel at the wisdom of hyderabadis to stand up against separatism built on lies and hatred

    ReplyDelete
  32. @Mr.Nayeem,

    Sir,With due respect to whatever has happened,I agree some people got emotional.

    But,trust us,this has been happened before.

    Some people are using different i.d,s and are creating a lot of confusion.They utter abuses and hide behind anonymous i.d,s.

    It has been a problem,and we have faced it before.

    Trust me,neither Sujai nor any one here has any intentions of hurting religious sentiments of anyone.

    The comments were either misunderstood or misread which lead to the confusion.


    It was not meant to be personal.

    A lot of my family stays in Karwan,Lal Darwaza,Aliabad and many more places in Hyderabad.I understand the nerve here.


    We are discussing a sensitive issue here so,I request everyone to please maintain some restraint on your emotions.

    Sujai,

    Please do something about i.d,s. We cant keep ignoring it.

    @chomskyist,

    Bro,
    Please apologise.Your comments were for someone else,we know...

    ReplyDelete
  33. Arun Hyderabad TelanganaMarch 07, 2010 12:57 PM

    @ Prasad

    ""I marvel at the wisdom of hyderabadis to stand up against separatism built on lies and hatred""

    and I marvel at your wisdom which makes you think all the muslims in Hyderabad support MIM and are against bifurcation. lol..wake up!

    ReplyDelete
  34. nayeem, chomskyist:

    Please refrain from hurling abuses at each other and keep the discussion civil.

    nayeem: please direct me to the comment you find offensive. If it is a personal attack and insult, I will delete them.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Arun Hyderabad TelanganaMarch 07, 2010 1:01 PM

    nayeem bhai...

    some folks come in here just to create some confusion, but I am hoping scripthoster is not one of them. I don't think he didn't really mean to say anything against any religion, all that he was saying against was the frustrated/desperate andhraites who keep causing issues on this blog and we have seen that before. It was not against any religion but was agains't the individuals who have created issues before...we respect your feelings!

    ReplyDelete
  36. Arun Hyderabad TelanganaMarch 07, 2010 1:03 PM

    nayeem bhai...

    some folks come in here just to create some confusion, but I am hoping scripthoster is not one of them. I think he didn't really mean to say anything against any religion, all that he was saying against was the frustrated/desperate andhraites who keep causing issues on this blog and we have seen that before. It was not against any religion but was agains't the individuals who have created issues before...we respect your feelings!

    ReplyDelete
  37. Arun anna....

    what did i say to nayeem ...
    nannu involve cheyya kandi...
    :-)

    ReplyDelete
  38. Arun Hyderabad TelanganaMarch 07, 2010 1:21 PM

    @ scripthoster

    sorry bhaiya confuse ayina..I meant to say " chomskyist " and not you...

    Nayeem bhai..sorry for the confusion..I meant to say " chomskyist " and not scripthoster...

    ReplyDelete
  39. MIM:

    Where do we migrate to? There is no other "safe" place.

    That is my point. Whether we like it or not, we share the same geography – Telangana Muslims and Telangana Hindus. When most of Telangana is seeking separate statehood, it does not make ‘practical sense’ to oppose it. I completely defend your right to oppose it as an individual. Nobody has a right to impose it onto you or make you conform to the majority. You can still hold anti-Telangana flag living in Telangana and I will support your right. You could continue to live in Telangana opposing Telangana. Allegiance is not a prerequisite to live in Telangana.

    However I find it foolish to oppose it as a group given the history. Note the distinction – between individual and group. MIM is a political party and Owaisi’s decisions will decide the fates of people. He has to be practical like every politician and not bungle up the way Nizam did when he decided to oppose union with India when the majority opinion was to join.

    You already mentioned Hyderbad provided safe haven for people escaping persecution in Telangana. So, should we be obligated to support this movement based on a threat?

    You have to understand that such persecution happened in the distant past, and there were reasons for that, not that I justify those reasons. Razakar movement, followed by Hindu reprisals. Yes, there has been a checkered history, I admit that. So what do we do now? Do you think putting all Muslims of Telangana in the old city is a solution?

    SC/STs in Telangana have been discriminated against, dominated against and suppressed. Do you propose a solution where they all go to one place, settle down, and feel safe? What is the right way to fight for emancipation of SC/STs? Why similar fight can’t be fought for plight of Muslims instead of seeking more ‘safe havens’?

    You unintentionally reinforced a concern of Hyderbadi Muslims - they would be the next targets to be forced out of Hyderabad if Telangana separates.

    Right politics can change all that. If I were a Muslim in Telangana, I would stand up and fight for separate Telangana, and make sure my interests are protected in the new state by getting the right agreements signed, right resolutions passed, installing safeguards, protections and reservations. This is the time I would jump the gun and get all the agreements to protect the interest of Muslims in Telangana. Missing out on this opportunity is foolishness, and doing injustice to your own people. KCR said that he proposes reservations for Muslims. Make it binding and add few more to the wish list. And announce that you support Telangana as long as those promises are kept.

    If I read my histories, I would realize that Nizam opposing Indian Union was a bad move for Muslims of Telangana. He escaped to Turkey but left Muslims in a strange situation. I would implore upon Owaisi not to repeat the mistakes. As a group you have to be pragmatic and see how you can use this opportunity to better things for your people. Getting dejected with the past and giving up on the present is doing injustice to your own people.

    If you fear Muslims would be next targets if Telangana forms, then the best way to counter such possibilities are by taking the right political decisions. Please understand that fates of people can be changed by few political decisions.

    [Contd…]

    ReplyDelete
  40. [Continued from previous comment]

    MIM:

    I think India has seen enough bloody mass migrations of minorities from partition to Kashmir pandits. So, I beleive (may be incorrectly) that majority of Indians are instinctively uncomfortable about rhetorics involving forcing and uprooting people based on their religious or regional identities. This is probably a reason why there is no real support for Telangana movement in rest of the country.

    The answer lies in the few questions I asked. Can SC/STs form a state based on their caste-identity? Can women form a state based on sex-identity? Now for the next question, Can Muslims form a state based on their religious-identity?

    While you are answering these questions, keep in mind how certain states were formed in the past, on what identities?

    Sujai - I know you probably did not mean to suggest Muslims from Hyderbad should migrate if Telangana forms, but I hope you see the point I am trying to make.

    Of course I am not suggesting anyone to migrate. But if people fear a change that is inevitable and think that they will be persecuted in the new state, there are two ways to go about it. Ask the new state to provide the safeguards and protections and hope they will abide by it. Or migrate to those places where you feel safe.

    When Andhra State was formed, some Andhras continued to live in Madras, while most of them migrated to Andhra State – based on fears – whether they were based in reality or not is a different matter. When Shiv Sena and Kannadiga regionalists targeted Tamils in Mumbai and Bangalore, the Tamils continued to live in those cities seeking protection from the state.

    The answers to group-identity problems lie in politics. The answers to individual-right problems likes in legalities.

    ReplyDelete
  41. //Please refrain from hurling abuses at each other and keep the discussion civil.

    nayeem: please direct me to the comment you find offensive. If it is a personal attack and insult, I will delete them.//
    Have you decided to keep the posts still?Have you decided that it is not a personal attach??

    ReplyDelete
  42. @Sujai,

    I thought you're being politically correct on some issues. Thankfully you've proved me wrong on this count.

    Infact, I changed my stance when I saw the real sentiment in interior Telangana. I felt that Telangana would be an eventuality, there might be some delay, but it would come all the same.

    I'm pleasantly surprised that your ideas were precisely what I thought when I was changing my stance.

    For Andhra settlers in Hyd, the only question is when Telangana would be formed, and not whether it will be formed. When this is an eventuality, I hence feel that those of Andhra who have made Hyd their home are as much Hyderabadis as other Telanganas. Hence, their true home is Hyd, and hence they should be in good terms with the localites.

    ReplyDelete
  43. //When the opposition is so clear from the people and the people's representatives of Hyderabad, why are telanganas forcibly trying to merge Hyderbad with Telangana?//

    Same applies in case of Telangana and Andhra. Can you leave us by allowing us having our own state?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Prasad:

    U guys did not seek their opinion nor u considered their approval b4 seeking t state.

    You are right that we did not get them on board. However, understand this – there was no clear plan to get everybody on board. It was more of many people demanding Telangana while politicians are just following the lead. That is not good in the long run. Politicians have to lead this eventually and make necessary overtures to get every group on board.

    If you think about it, nobody went about in Telangana seeking approval from each group and identity. This movement has been happening at the grass root level for quite some time but was given the political impetus only recently. MIM has been opposing the formation of Telangana for some time now. However, many other Muslims groups endorsed Telangana.

    They can as well oppose separating from rest of the state.

    They can as well oppose. They have every right to oppose. I am only saying that it may not make practical sense – from the limited view I have of the subject. What’s the big thing you are going to achieve by opposing an eventuality? Look what happened in Hyderabad State when Nizam opposed the union with India?

    Muslims of India can stay anywhere they want. Why wud u care? If it was ur genuine concern, u wud have brought them along b4 forming JAC.

    Well, I do care. Read the rest of my blog. There are many topics on Muslims in India on this post though I am not a Muslim. There are topics on Tamils in Sri Lanka though I am no Tamil. There are topics on homosexuals though I am not a homosexual.

    I have many friends who are Muslims and I have brought them into Telangana agitation. Some of them are political aspirants too. I wouldn’t mind meeting Mr Owaisi in my next visit and making a case.

    U r getting really desperate.

    You read this wrong. I am not desperate. In some ways I am hoping that the time we got now should be used to bring more groups into the fold so that the future Telangana can actually witness an inclusive growth. The delay could be for good of Telangana.

    I marvel at the wisdom of hyderabadis to stand up against separatism built on lies and hatred

    ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  45. //The wakf lands around Hyderabad were occupied illegally.//

    And you dont want to know in whom hands major illegally occupied wakf lands are.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Prasad:

    The more I see Sujai's opinions on the ways and means of Telangana formation, the more I see desparation to somehow prove that life in Telangana region prior to 1956 was golden,

    ;-)

    Nice try. I never said anything which suggests what you wrote. I always maintained that Telangana under Nizam was steeped in feudalism, slavery, and bonded labor.

    Somewhere, it had to end and it led to the Buddha of Telangana, KCR, who would lead Sujai and other followers to enlightenment

    It’s up to you to decide on who is following and who is leading. I have been ardent supporter of Telangana for over twenty years now. KCR came onto scene about ten years ago. I heard him speak for the first time after Dec 9th.

    This is the arrogance I am talking about. U want to 'INCLUDE' them even though they donot want to.

    Inclusive growth does not mean ‘including’ them in the struggle. Go to the nearest guy who has average IQ and ask him what inclusive growth means.

    Overtures are already made... 15% from KCR pocket, Urdu second official language etc. U want to hand over all land to wakf boards and give them reservation in govt jobs and educational institutions based on their share of population??

    Good. I am happy to know that overtures are made. It’s a good start.

    ReplyDelete
  47. //Muslim of Telangana will not trust what u say or I say.//

    You may want to refine your statement like below.

    Muslim of Old City will not trust what u say or I say.

    ReplyDelete
  48. //they will be the losers as their education levels are lower and u guys will occupy ALL local jobs even though they are 40% in the city. Do u have a reason why that will NOT happen?//

    Atleast you can give us a chance to prove ourself whether we will discriminate Muslims or not. We gave that chance to Andhras and they didnt proved so now they must leave Telangana to there people. We do the same in future if this happens in Telanganan state.

    ReplyDelete
  49. //Andhra rulers especially NTR, YSR and CBN have kept the city free from riots//

    Didnt YSR was the master mind to happen riots some time back?

    Read the MIM website, many of there readers expressed the same.

    ReplyDelete
  50. //Ur statement of 85% outside Hyd is without proof. Did u do ANY survey before and after MIM spelled out its stand?//

    As per 2001 census
    Total Population in AP - Crores 3,09,87,271
    Hindus 2,66,30,949
    Percentage 85.94%
    Muslims 38,53,213
    Percentage 12.43%
    Others 5,03,109
    Percentage 1.62%

    Hyderabad population 31,45,939
    Muslim population in HYD(40%) - 12,58,375
    (Not every HYD Muslim is with MIM)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2YzJzpxIKM&feature=related

    We will assume 10,00,000 HYD muslims are with MIM.

    Muslim population in rest of Telangana (not including Hyderabad)
    38,53,213 - 10,00,000 = 32,53,213

    So the conclusion, MIM represents only 1/4 of muslims in whole telangana but not all muslims in Telangana.



    Ever since Telugu Desam Party came to power in the state, Muslims have been facing discrimination. In many Telangana districts though Urdu has been made the second official language, its implementation is slow.
    http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/16-31Aug04-Print-Edition/163108200423.htm

    -The Milli Gazette, Muslim's leading news paper.

    ReplyDelete
  51. //MIM does not have any reps in other parts of state due to tacit understanding and agreement with Congress.//

    Did he(MIM) tell you this?

    ReplyDelete
  52. //This is the arrogance I am talking about. U want to 'INCLUDE' them even though they donot want to. //

    And you are doing the same with 'Jai Andhra', Botsa etc teams.

    ReplyDelete
  53. ////
    Creating a state or Union Territory for Hyderabad inside Telangana without the support of Telangana is an impractical idea. Such experiments have never worked. Berlin during Cold War was an expensive and futile experiment. //
    The answer to that is Art 3.The opinion of region that want to separate is the only one that matters just like you keep saying
    opinion of the people of Telangana only matters but that of Seemandhra doesn' matter.//

    You need to know the difference between 'Practical' and 'possible'. Separate HYD can be possible, but not practical (it if they have majority support in India, they are wellcome to start there own voice)

    ReplyDelete
  54. Prasad:

    However, all ur responses and reasoning smack of arrogance and subtle threats to bring MIM and muslims into submission to ur agenda, that unsurprisingly u attack United Andhra supporters of.

    There are no threats. If I were a Muslim in Telangana, this is what I would do – I would support Telangana agitation and ensure I get my protections and safeguards.

    Look at the history. Alienation can happen through political decision – though we do not condone such alienation. Why not get your demands when the opportunity knocks?

    We claim cities and towns to a country, to whose constitution and sovereignity we all owe allegiance to.

    Well, I beg to differ here. Imagine if South India becomes a new country. Will Hyderabad, Chennai and Bangalore be claimed by North India or South India? When a region secedes, when a region is separated, the cities that lie inside those regions follow the separation based on where they are geographically present.

    If u say Hyd belongs to one region, it also belongs to the state and to the country.

    That’s tautological. A city belongs to a region, then to state, then to the country, then to the continent, then to the planet, then to the solar system and so on. You have to know where the separation is happening.

    I can work, buy home, stay in Chennai or any corner of the country. Similarly, any Indian citizen can claim Hyd as their city. Get ur basics right.

    A citizen can live anywhere they want within a country, and also he can live anywhere he wants on the planet. Many Indians live in many US cities, own properties, own businesses and some of them have become the residents of those states and countries. However, no matter how Indians live in San Francisco, that city still belongs to Northern California, then California, then West United States, then United States, then North America, and so on. It will not belong to India.

    Telangana culture, if at all it exists, is the bastardization of Telugu,

    Hence, we keep referring to the ‘low opinion’ that Andhras carry of Telangana which led to discrimination of Telangana people in this region – and that includes discrimination of Muslims of Telangana though some of them don’t seem to realize it.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Prasad:

    Why ignore the suffering of Northern Andhra and rayalaseema? Are they NOT ur Indian brothers?

    Once Telangana is formed we will support their fight. Hopefully creation of Telangana will set a precedent that will help the North Andhra and Rayalaseema.

    Ur sudden love for Muslims is only because they are sizable enough to be decisive.

    Not really. If I was not genuinely concerned about plight of Muslims in Telangana and I was ruthless politician, I can carry on the fight without getting their approval. Muslims in Telangana comprise only 12% of the population. Hyderabadi Muslims are only 3%. In our flawed democracy, that’s a minority. Imagine, Andhras reduced 40% of Telanganas to a minority – 12% and 3% is too small to make a difference when you know that entire Telangana favors new state.

    For me, inclusive growth of Telangana is as important as formation of Telangana.

    u would give a damn in ur blog like Christians, Parsis, Anglo Indians etc do NOT find a mention.

    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You have not understood my blog at all.

    Christians, Parsis, Anglo Indians are a minority but are a privileged group – they are over-represented in all spheres in India. This was published few years ago in NSSO study. However, I have a slightly different opinion on lower caste Christian converts. If Christians are segregated into two groups, then we will see that lower caste Christians converts are not well-represented.

    Muslim of Telangana will not trust what u say or I say.

    Many of them in Telangana seem to trust what I say. The only exception is Muslims of Hyderabad. I am making a case for them as well. I believe Mr Owaisi is not being practical and is on the verge of making a mistake similar to what Nizam did fifty years ago. Such impractical decisions will lead to further alienation – politically – which will have an impact on individual as well.

    In the new Telangana, they will be the losers as their education levels are lower and u guys will occupy ALL local jobs even though they are 40% in the city.

    Exactly. That can be countered if certain safeguards, protections and reservations are constituted. Formation of Telangana is a very good time to push for those protections.

    MIM does not have any reps in other parts of state due to tacit understanding and agreement with Congress.

    But most Congress leaders of Telangana support Telangana state.

    ReplyDelete
  56. @SUJAI

    Im reading the book guns germs and steel.The case of Maori and Marori sharing same ancestry,changing within a short period of time and annihalating the other can be applied to that of andhraites and teleganas.

    ReplyDelete
  57. //the more I see desparation to somehow prove that life in Telangana region prior to 1956 was golden, //

    Yes, Telangana was almost moving towards golden between Nizam and Andha merge.

    //
    PVN a telangana leader was weak and innocent till he became PM in 1991
    //

    PVN became PM because of the situation but not because he is strong leader. And he supported United Andhra, we never said all our leaders are Telangana supporters so far.

    ReplyDelete
  58. //they are shocked to see so many 'incompetent' people largely telugus and a lot of them from 'andhra' in the univ. //

    You guys only say, Telangana developed well than Andhra in all sectors, again you say you are lot in all sectors because you are intellectual than Telanganites.

    ReplyDelete
  59. PLEASE READ THIS INTERESTING ARTICLE(It relates to andhraites and teleganas)



    A NATURAL EXPERIMENT OF HISTORY



    IN THE CHATHAM IS LANDS, 500 MI L E S EAST OF
    NEW Zealand, centuries of independence came to a brutal
    end for the Moriori people in December 1835. On
    November 19 of that year, a ship carrying 500 Maori armed
    with guns, clubs, and axes arrived, followed on December 5
    by a shipload of 400 more Maori. Groups of Maori began to
    walk through Moriori settlements, announcing that the
    Moriori were now their slaves, and killing those who
    objected. An organized resistance by the Moriori could still
    then have defeated the Maori, who were outnumbered two to
    one. However, the Moriori had a tradition of resolving
    disputes peacefully. They decided in a council meeting not
    to fight back but to offer peace, friendship, and a division of
    resources.
    Before the Moriori could deliver that offer, the Maori attacked en masse.
    Over the course of the next few days, they killed hundreds of Mori ori, cooked
    and ate many of the bodies, and enslaved all the others, killing most of them
    too over the next few years as it suited their whim. A Moriori survivor
    recalled, "[The Maori] commenced to kill us like sheep.. . . [We] were
    terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in
    any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discov ered and
    killed—men, women, and children indiscriminately." A Maori conqueror
    explained, "We took possession. . . in accordance with our cus-tion, the Chathams are relatively small and remote islands, capable of
    supporting a total population of only about 2,000 hunter-gatherers. With no
    other accessible islands to colonize, the Moriori had to remain in the Chat-
    hams, and to learn how to get along with each other. They did so by
    renouncing war, and they reduced potential conflicts from overpopulation by
    castrating some male infants. The result was a small, unwarlike popula tion
    with simple technology and weapons, and without strong leadership or
    organization.
    In contrast, the northern (warmer) part of New Zealand, by far the
    largest island group in Polynesia, was suitable for Polynesian agriculture.
    Those Maori who remained in New Zealand increased in numbers until
    there were more than 100,000 of them. They developed locally dense
    populations chronically engaged in ferocious wars with neighboring
    populations. With the crop surpluses that they could grow and store, they
    fed craft specialists, chiefs, and part-time soldiers. They needed and
    developed varied tools for growing their crops, fighting, and making an. They
    erected elaborate ceremonial buildings and prodigious numbers of forts.
    Thus, Moriori and Maori societies developed from the same ancestral
    society, but along very different lines. The resulting two societies lost
    awareness even of each other's existence and did not come into contact
    again for many centuries, perhaps for as long as 500 years. Finally, an
    Australian seal-hunting ship visiting the Chathams en route to New
    Zealand brought the news to New Zealand of islands where "there is an
    abundance of sea and shellfish; the lakes swarm with eels; and it is a land of
    the karaka berry.. . . The inhabitants are very numerous, but they do not
    understand how to fight, and have no weapons." That news was enough
    to induce 900 Maori to sail to the Chathams. The outcome clearly illustrates
    how environments can affect economy, technology, political organization,
    and fighting skills within a short time.(Think how did andhraites evolve in 300 hundred years of British rule and are now though not killing us exterminating our telengana identity and culture)

    ReplyDelete
  60. @GREENSTAR

    If TELENGANA WAS LEFT ALONE. We had the oppurtunity to be atleast as rich as KRISHNA district(second highest pci in AP) You could argue that we are upstream and its natural that only Delta Areas like E and W Godavari could be fertile.
    But the fact is that Krishna and Mahbubnagar have the same geogpraphical conditions for irrigation while one remains richest the other is poorest in AP.
    We may not had "good old days" but we had every reason to believe that someday we could be prosperous.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Just look at the State syllabus telugu and social textbooks. We have been thaught that all telangana words are parusham(obimination) and andhra words are sarulam(natural).
    There is not even a mention of telangana history or culture.But you have the great exploits of rayalaseema kings and Andhra pandithulu.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Chomkyist:

    Jared Diamond's 'Guns, Germs & Steel' is one of the greatest books. You could read his others books - Collapse, Third Chimpanzee.

    Marvin Harris's 'Cannibals and Kings' is another read to understand some other aspects - like why some people don't eat pigs or cows.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Sujai thanks for the advice on books.

    ReplyDelete
  64. //So you are saying you don’t care whether you are in Hyderabad state, Andhra Pradesh, Telangana or Andhra State. So, why oppose formation of Telangana since you don’t care where you are as long as you are inside India?//
    Its not whether they live in Telangana or AP,what I'm trying to drive home is that there are issues common to the muslims everywhere.Regional or state allegiance doesn't come in the picture when there is a struggle for basic necessities of life.There are many old city muslims who have lots of relatives in Kadapa or in Kurnool.Whether it is old city Hyderabad or Karimnagar or Kurnool for an average muslim there is not much of a lifestyle change.
    As far as Telangana and is concerned a 14 point charter like reservations in services,urdu as second language,status quo on Personal law,allocation in housing boards and so on was forwarded to the political parties and if they supported it they would not mind the separate state since there were apprehensions back then especially at the way the separatist movement was being led by the leaders who had communal character.But no response was received.Further there were attempts to systematically weed out the muslim employees from govt services during Chenna Reddy's regime that has sown the seeds of suspision.It was in this context that the neutral stance was adopted.However the issues like Six point formula and G0 610 were of utmost importance.MIM was the most vociferous votary of GO610 implementation and disposed before the Girgilani Committee.The statement is worthy ready.
    tinyurl.com/yf2fyan
    Coming to the question of formation of the state.You have to understand any change from status quo presents a huge challenge to minorities.Since there are lots of divergent opinions and views as to what happens if Telangana forms.Some people say that percentage of muslims to that of the state would improve phenomenally which is advantage to MIM since old city votes them and it might strengthen in Telangana areas further.That would give them the bargaining power to exert pressure on any government.But another school of thought that status quo is bad in that it disturbs the political equations in the new environment and nobody knows what going to happen,so many apprehensions.
    My straight question is that did anybody take the opinion before the current movement was started? How can one assume what is best for the interest of ppl in old city? When 4 % reservation needs complex constitutional formalities how can 14 % reservation be possible.
    Cont...

    ReplyDelete
  65. @Sujai:
    "There are no threats. If I were a Muslim in Telangana, this is what I would do – I would support Telangana agitation and ensure I get my protections and safeguards."

    U have to take a holistic perspective. Politics in the country has made number of promises to uplift Muslim community, most of them as appeasement and benefitting elites and 'creamy' layer. Muslims will NOT trust protections and safegaurds meant to support separatism without real social trends to back them up. Without education, if u think reservations or GO610-like rule are going to be helpful to them, u r kidding. They will be second or third-grade people in Telangana due to lack of education and the legacy of Nizam rule still fresh in people's minds. Ur own repeated threats of 'repitition of Nizam's mistake regarding merger with Indian union' is an indicator of legacy they have to live with and will be reminded EVERY TIME they do NOT support ur stand.

    Ur every stand is based on 'support Telangana now. we will take care of u, just make sure u get all safeguards'. If someone from United Andhra says the same thing, lets start over... we'll do it right this time as u are more matured and know what u want, lets keep the safeuguards. U are not going to accept it. Why should Telangana muslims trust u when muslims are considered as mere votebanks? Until Muslims get the same literacy and social upliftment into middle class as other communities and groups have, there will not be ANY realization of rosy picture u guys are promising.

    "Well, I beg to differ here. Imagine if South India becomes a new country. Will Hyderabad, Chennai and Bangalore be claimed by North India or South India? When a region secedes, when a region is separated, the cities that lie inside those regions follow the separation based on where they are geographically present.

    That’s tautological. A city belongs to a region, then to state, then to the country, then to the continent, then to the planet, then to the solar system and so on. You have to know where the separation is happening. "

    Do u agree secession is a big deal that 'bifurcation' or merger? U r talking as if secession is as common or as easy as merger or split. If u say North India could split, I would say, just Adilabad district could secede from India... the possibility is endless. However, WHATEVER CORNER OF THE COUNTRY WE ARE IN, WE ARE INDIANS. My sovereignity is tied to sovereignity of India, not to A.P. or TN or Hyd or anything. Did ur civics course tell u that? What do MLAs and public representatives swear on? My school pledge specifically said I am an Indian first and my state or region could be anything in India.

    I could move and live anywhere in the country and NOT continent or planet. Indian constitution gives me rights and NOT some state or city or continent or planet. Thats ridiculous. Dude.. I can clearly see u consider urself more important to be Telangana than Indian... thats insulting to Gandhi and other freedom fighters who fought for Independence of the COUNTRY than the region they are from. Get basic civics right... thats more important than talking shit about regions. U got it all backwards.

    ReplyDelete
  66. @Sujai:
    "A citizen can live anywhere they want within a country, and also he can live anywhere he wants on the planet. Many Indians live in many US cities, own properties,... city still belongs to Northern California, then California, then West United States, then United States, then North America, and so on. It will not belong to India. "

    Dude.. whats wrong with u. Do u know what citizenship means? Can I go to Turkey or australia if I want to ANYTIME? NO NO NO. I have to get visa, give reasons, I will have NO rights given to citizens, no protection nothing. U r crazy and idiot than I thought. Being Indian, I can go to anywhere in India without these rules and restrictions. Indians in northern california will still be Indians if they do NOT acquire US citizenship. They call themselves Americans, when they get citizenship, than Northern Californian or some ridiculous shit. They have US flags on their homes to show the love for their new country. U r more dumb than I thought.

    Indians in US are on some visas and they cannot have rights of citizens or residents. They r for limited time and they can be deported ANYTIME, even at the airport, as happened recently. They cannot go to any country other than India.

    'WANT' is different from 'CAN'. I may WANT to go/stay country X but CAN I? Being in any part of India, I CAN go and do everything I want to do in any other part. Citizenship belongs to a country NOT to a region or state. No matter what u consider, u r a legal citizen of India NOT Telangana.

    "Hence, we keep referring to the ‘low opinion’ that Andhras carry of Telangana which led to discrimination of Telangana people in this region – and that includes discrimination of Muslims of Telangana though some of them don’t seem to realize it."

    Whats low about using words only while speaking but not in writing? Bastardization occured for several languages. Urdu words are found in written and spoken Hindi but NOT in Telugu. Care to explain why?

    ReplyDelete
  67. "Look what happened in Hyderabad State when Nizam opposed the union with India?"

    How can accession to Indian 'UNION' be equated or compared with the merger with Telangana? The first one was moral and cultural and historical. Seconds is mere rearrangement within Indian union. Muslims should not be and Need not be reminded of it as a veiled threat for isolation. Are u saying they will be isolated and hated further if they do NOT go with ur stand?

    "If you think about it, nobody went about in Telangana seeking approval from each group and identity."

    If only u cud spend half the time with MIM, MBT etc that u spent on bringing TDP and other parties on to JAC. Political and social consensus is important and Muslims with less than 2% share before independence played a key role in Indian independence. What makes u think they do NOT need to be consulted before with such huge stakes in the new stake? Now that MIM is NOT rolling into ur plans, u r taking shots at them to see whatever sticks to bring them around: veiled threats, appeasement, promises etc etc.

    "In some ways I am hoping that the time we got now should be used to bring more groups into the fold so that the future Telangana can actually witness an inclusive growth. The delay could be for good of Telangana. "

    Thats a good idea but as I said it should have been done before. MIM took a public stand now because they were NOT required to do before. U might be doing more harm and insulting them by consulting them after as if they do NOT matter.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Sujai:
    "But most Congress leaders of Telangana support Telangana state."

    That does not mean MIM supporters across the state are with Congress leaders. U have to take their views post-MIM public stand.

    "Many of them in Telangana seem to trust what I say. The only exception is Muslims of Hyderabad."

    U got it wrong. They look up to Muslim leaders, for better or worse, for guidance and lead. As a community, they think they are safer if they r united in the community. What makes u think thats not the case?

    "That can be countered if certain safeguards, protections and reservations are constituted."
    As I said, reservations do not give them jobs unless kids go to schools and get education and become literate. How will u safeguard them from Chenna Reddy-style targetting? This is all crap.

    Good luck meeting with Owaisi to change the course. If he does not oblige, u can forget about Telangana state.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Well said Sujai. Owaisi's are oppurtunisitic politicians. A muslim in Telangana needs to analyze and calculate what has the Owaisi family done for them. In comparison to the election manifesto and during term.

    Owaisi's are good in safe guarding its people during the riots other than that not much development has been done in old city Hyderabad.

    Owaisi needs to bring more education funds for the old city.

    ReplyDelete
  70. //U r crazy and idiot than I thought.//

    No need of personal abuse. How do you feel if Sujai or some one call you idiot? Every one has there own opinion, we came here for debate but not to be called as idiots by some one.

    //Dude.. whats wrong with u. Do u know what citizenship means? Can I go to Turkey or australia if I want to ANYTIME? NO NO NO. I have to get visa, give reasons, I will have NO rights given to citizens, no protection nothing.//

    You didnt understand Sujai well. You can move to any place in the world. Here is the differences

    Moving to other country: You need to complete some process before moving(VISA, immigration etc) and you need to complete some other process after moving (citizen ship etc), then only you get all the rights enjoyed by there natives.

    Moving with in the country: You do not need visa, but after moving you need to stay there for certain period to get all the rights enjoyed by there natives (domicile rules).

    ReplyDelete
  71. //Urdu words are found in written and spoken Hindi but NOT in Telugu. Care to explain why? //

    Because the Telugu what you called is came from Andhra, but not from Telangana. When I am kid I used to see the hospital boards with name 'Dhawakhana' written in Telugu, you can not found this word in telugu dictionary.

    ReplyDelete
  72. //Are u saying they will be isolated and hated further if they do NOT go with ur stand?//

    No

    ReplyDelete
  73. //What makes u think they do NOT need to be consulted before with such huge stakes in the new stake? //

    We consult with Muslims, and with MIM. You are confused between Muslims and MIM. Majority Muslims are with us, MIM is not with us. you need to see the difference.

    ReplyDelete
  74. //Good luck meeting with Owaisi to change the course. If he does not oblige, u can forget about Telangana state. //

    What a joke, have you thought the same when you see Hari Ram Jogayya? MIM can make us little more strong, but with MIM we are not in a position to loose. Period.

    ReplyDelete
  75. // A muslim in Telangana needs to analyze and calculate what has the Owaisi family done for them. In comparison to the election manifesto and during term. //
    Hey what have you done for community ,did any of your politicians bother to come to old city and see what the life is. Basic education is denied there leave alone reading manifestos.Anybody who speaks for old city and keeps them united is a leader.

    ReplyDelete
  76. @ Prasad,

    Why do you keep forgetting that Hyderabad was a different state(country)earlier.

    YOU are dumber than I thought you were.

    When so many rules were already flouted earlier,while grouping them into Indid,what makes you think giving another chance would make any difference????

    Would you employ some one who already has cheated you several times?????

    When people are forced against their wishes,we know what can happen.
    Since we have been through that we understand their stance now.

    If the JAC or for that matter any one is promising them some respites,I am all for it.

    The minorities should use this oppurtunity to safeguard themselves.

    What is your problem?????

    Formation of TELANGANA OR MIM and other minorities joining the agitation.

    The Nizam did leave them all in a lurch,without any protective rights or safeguards.
    It,s like a father turning his back on his children during bad times.

    A lot of Muslims live badly,today
    mainly due to this reason.

    If they huddle themselves in the old city,they are only protecting themselves from the majority surrounding them.

    Why should we not tell them that they can get better oppurtunities,education and facilities.

    A lot of my Muslim friends either moved to Dubai,S.Arabia or Mid eastern countries for jobs only because they do not feel they cannot improve if they stay here.

    This is really a golden chance for them and other minorities to make themselves stronger and get equal rights.

    How can the MIM support all the Muslims without any proper subsidies from the govt.

    And where will these leaders who make promises go??
    They have to come back to the assembly,right in the heart of Hyderabad.

    ReplyDelete
  77. @Nayeem,

    When basic facilities like education and infrastructure are not fulfilled by the govt.it simply means the govt. could not provide what it has promised.

    Why not make a proper start,now.

    This time around the leaders cannot get away by just giving paper protection.

    Times have changed.

    Shouldnt we???????

    ReplyDelete
  78. Sujai,
    If most people in Telangana had your views on minority rights, MIM and other Muslim groups and people would support the cause. It is not the case. Just look at the reactions you got on MF Hussain issue. If Telangana forms, Muslims have a legitimate fear of the following scenario -

    1. TDP and TRS will become irrelevant and redundant in Telangana due to obvious reasons.
    2. BJP is only party that can fill the role of a viable opposition party in this situation
    3. It is not far-fetched to think that the current TRS leadership will be welcomed into BJP for political reasons.
    4. To gain political power, BJP will start a Gujarat-like hate campaign against Muslims, hyping up the last Nizam's historical abuses. Muslims will be blamed for all problems of Telanganas.
    5. Innocent and emotional people of Telangan are likely to fall into this hate campaign trap. Gujarat is the home of Gandhi. If Modi can turn it into Hindu state, there is every reason to believe Telangana will fall into BJP trap.

    Mr. Owaisi is a realist. He knows status quo is not great, but the above scenario is scary. May be he is wrong, but why would he risk the basic safety of Muslim polupation? I have total failth in the integrity of Mr. Owaisi compared to habitual lying politicians of Telangana.
    Why do you think BJP is so interested and vocal about Telangana? They see it as the only opportunity to displace TDP and become relevant in Hyderabad politics.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Sujai,
    Please see below by responses to your specific questions.

    I will ask you few questions.

    //1. Do you support separate Telangana?//

    No

    //2. Do you support separate Hyderabad?//

    No

    //3. Do you support united Andhra Pradesh?//

    Yes

    //4. Do you think SC/STs deserve statehood based on their caste-identity? Why?//

    No, because they are guaranteed political representation and reservations in educational and employment.

    //5. Do you think women deserve statehood based on their sex-identity? Why?//

    No, because they are guaranteed political representation and reservations in educational and employment.


    //6. Do you believe the plight of Muslims can be addressed within the legal confines of Indian Constitution? If so, what are the key steps?//

    Yes, they should be given political representation and reservations in educational and employment. They should have strong incentives to educate children, especially girls.


    //7. Do you think Hyderabadi Muslims form a different identity compared to Muslims outside old city? Or do you share the same plight as other Muslims?//

    They face different set of issues, but they all have a big common issue of safety and security. It is worse than rest of India due to recent bad history.


    //8. Do you think Muslims of Hyderabad are culturally and historically linked to Telangana? or do they form a separate group?//

    Muslims of Hyderabad city share common history with people of former Hyderbad state.

    ReplyDelete
  80. MIM,
    I will answer another question
    Do MIM represents Muslims of Telangana?
    NO.
    Does MIM represents Muslims of Hyderabad?
    No
    Then what is it?
    It is a political party that is only seeking to reperesent muslims of Telangana.
    At present it could only win representation from some constituencies in Hyderabad. These constituencies are populated by bothe hindus and mulsims. If i become a Prime Minister i would represent 1 billion people in India and not just the 50 % who voted for my party.
    Probably you do not understand what democracy means/

    ReplyDelete
  81. Above make a correction
    It is a political party that is only seeking to reperesent muslims of Telangana
    as
    It is a political party seeking to represnt people of Andhra pradesh(from some constituencies which are populated by more muslims than non-muslims).

    ReplyDelete
  82. Most Muslims today regard that the telengana rebellion of the last century that was against Nizam as simply Anti Muslim.
    They simply extrapolate anything anti-nizam as anti-muslim. This concept has been thoroughly entertained by the MIM leaders. Such a notion that MIM encourages is because of its past roots. The deep roots that go back to the Razakar Movement.
    The early MIM formation has roots that utilized the religious prejudice as the basis to rise to power. Whether it was petted by Nizam or otherwise itself dictated Nizam(there is conisderable theory and evidence to support that Nizam was afraid of the MIM leaders like dreaded Qasim Razvi and even hated them as they extracted more power from him than he could bestow upon them as a sign of Royalty )it was quite clear during the Indian immediate post-independent period that it rallied hugely under the leadership of Qasim Razvi to keep hyderabad state separate from Indian Union.
    Nizam who already was devastated to foresee the imminent danger of losing his authority to democratic Indian Union simply encouraged Qasim Razvi as his last resort to curb growing rebellion against him and his feudal subsidaries in his dominion.
    How else they could influence the youth support their agenda other than Anti-Muslim prejudice? This resulted in several isolated incidents of attacks on Hindus and their counter attacks.
    This all could have been settled after the police action. But the indian Ary controlled by pseudo secular Indian Govt that was already devastated by partition and ensuing communal riots instead of punishing the culprits pardoned them with out any judicial enquiry and investigation. People like Rizvi were allowed to leave india to prevent any repurcussions.
    However the prejudice that was inclulcated by him and his followers who later came to lead MIM were left here. These few leaders and culprits enjoyed the protection and amnesty provided by the Indian Congress and Andhra elite continued to support the party.
    This is the reason why MIM continues to support their andhra protectorates irrespective of their regional identity. They percieve themselves as representatvies of muslims rather than an indian constituency with many muslims.
    They made the muslims under their influence forget the most prominent Mulim leaders like Maqdoom Mohinuddin and others who revolted against Nizam and his autocracy. They kept the muslim in ignorance by persuading them to take up only urdu lessons by effectively preventing them to join the mainstream indian secular politics.While most hindus today subscribe themselves to secular ideology several muslims percieve this as anti-muslim.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Green_Star:
    "No need of personal abuse. How do you feel if Sujai or some one call you idiot? Every one has there own opinion, we came here for debate but not to be called as idiots by some one."

    Trust me, idiot is a mild rebuke. What do u call a person who makes the following statements:

    1. "Imagine if South India becomes a new country"
    2. "A city belongs to a region, then to state, then to the country, then to the continent, then to the planet, then to the solar system and so on."

    Does this guy know the concept of sovereignity? We swear by Indian constitution and strive to protect the unity and integrity of India, NOT MY STATE NOT MY REGION.

    He trivializes breakup of India when our Armed forces are fighting to protect every sq foot of Indian soil in Ladakh and other hostile places ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. Some of these armed forces are also from the region this guy hails from.

    Is NOT there is difference between belonging to ONE country and belonging to a continent? Does he even know/have NATIONALISM? No wonder he does not care about the repercussions of the means, being used to achieve T state, on the unity and integrity of India. All he cares is justifying anything being used to achieve T state.

    Who needs enemies like Pakistan and China and traitors when this is the attitude of a person who superficially claims to be Indian but all his loyalty is to a narrow region that won freedom and independence due to sacrifices of people who thought about INDIA, not the state or the region they came from.

    Dumbo, inspite of people like u, India will NEVER break up. Indians still have patriotism for the COUNTRY NOT the REGION. Cities and states and towns may break up BUT they WILL always be part of India.

    I would suggest ALL the members on this forum to look at his messages above and let us know if idiot is harsh or mild word.

    ReplyDelete
  84. //1. TDP and TRS will become irrelevant and redundant in Telangana due to obvious reasons.
    2. BJP is only party that can fill the role of a viable opposition party in this situation
    3. It is not far-fetched to think that the current TRS leadership will be welcomed into BJP for political reasons.
    4. To gain political power, BJP will start a Gujarat-like hate campaign against Muslims, hyping up the last Nizam's historical abuses. Muslims will be blamed for all problems of Telanganas.
    5. Innocent and emotional people of Telangan are likely to fall into this hate campaign trap. Gujarat is the home of Gandhi. If Modi can turn it into Hindu state, there is every reason to believe Telangana will fall into BJP trap. //
    I say your logic is too much creative which is far from any logic.
    As per your logic, This following may also happen if Telangana is not formed.

    1. TDP and TRS will become irrelevant and redundant in Telangana due to obvious reasons.
    2. BJP is only party that can fill the role of a viable opposition party in this situation where all other parties failed to get Telanganan state
    3. It is not far-fetched to think that the current TRS leadership will be welcomed into BJP for political reasons.
    4. To gain political power, BJP will start a Gujarat-like hate campaign against Muslims, hyping up the last Nizam's historical abuses. Muslims will be blamed for all problems of Telanganas including 'They stopped the telangana formation'
    5. Innocent and emotional people of Telangan are likely to fall into this hate campaign trap. Gujarat is the home of Gandhi. If Modi can turn it into Hindu state, there is every reason to believe Telangana will fall into BJP trap.

    ReplyDelete
  85. //They face different set of issues, but they all have a big common issue of safety and security. It is worse than rest of India due to recent bad history.//

    settlers safety issues are gone, now they concern Muslims safety. !!!

    ReplyDelete
  86. Sravan:
    "These few leaders and culprits enjoyed the protection and amnesty provided by the Indian Congress and Andhra elite continued to support the party.
    This is the reason why MIM continues to support their andhra protectorates irrespective of their regional identity. "

    Do u have any proof to verify the claims about support of Congress and Andhra elite? What were the Communists stance towards this?

    ReplyDelete
  87. Green_Star:
    "settlers safety issues are gone, now they concern Muslims safety. !!!"

    So, what are u gonna do about it? I guess the topic came up because of Sujai's article, it is not random. Isn't it nice to see people asking tough questions why something should or should not be done?

    ReplyDelete
  88. //Does this guy know the concept of sovereignity? We swear by Indian constitution and strive to protect the unity and integrity of India, NOT MY STATE NOT MY REGION. //

    Dumbo, inspite of people like u, you dont know the difference between the examples and reality. Sujai took a imaginary situation, which you fail to understand.

    ReplyDelete
  89. //So, what are u gonna do about it? I guess the topic came up because of Sujai's article, it is not random. Isn't it nice to see people asking tough questions why something should or should not be done? //

    Well, you never talked about Muslims safety till now, and you just started your fake love towards muslims because of Sujai's post.

    ReplyDelete
  90. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Prasad,
    read from the book by andhra communist pucha palli sudaraiah.
    If you have chance go through several books that describe telangana rebellion and aftermath.
    And there is no need to prove that Qasim rizvi and his followers were released with out any judicial enquiry.
    You provide me data to prove that their atrocities were ever officially investigated?
    What else would you understand from the historical facts, when Nizam was declared Raj Pramukh of Hyderabad state?
    What else would I derive from the fact that Nizam after merger represented Kurnool and Ananthapur constituencies in Parliament?
    may be you are unaware that the General Chowdhary who led the Indian Army during police action was a personal friend of Nizam?
    And may be you are unaware that Indian govt. took a decisive action only when Nizam approached the govt. unable to control the deteriorating situation.
    If it was not the indian army, then the telangana rebels would have set him on fire.
    The lands that were freed from the feudal lords were forcefully returned to them by persecuting innocent villagers.
    the indian govt. under congress only acted to protect its hegemony in telangana rather than to help peope suffering under Nizam.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Prasad,
    Why are you portending a rubbish concept that forming telangana state would disintegrate India?
    may be you do not know but Nehru and others actually believed that forming separate andhra state on linguistic lines would disintegrate india on similar lines of pakistan.
    But that proved incorrect.
    So why do you still trying to signify the same that was proven to be incorrect already?

    ReplyDelete
  93. //Nehru and others actually believed that forming separate andhra state on linguistic lines would disintegrate india on similar lines of pakistan.//

    If that proved correct, then Andhra would have been blamed for destruction of India.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Sravan

    all i am saying is means are as important as ends. If the same pattern of hunger strikes until death, bandhs, resignations, paralyzing governance are followed by groups favoring diverse demands like new states, reservations, anything... The consequences of threat to Indian unity and integrity r severe. If someone thinks otherwise, they r kidding

    ReplyDelete
  95. Prasad,
    The ways of Telangana protests are essentially democratic. I do not deny that there were incidents that have been violent. But most of those that you meant here like hunger strikes, bundhs, resignations and Civil Disobedience are well known acts of non-violent democratic protests.
    You cannot simply condemn them as non-democratic ways just because their demands are not in tandem with yours'.
    But the state govt's over reaction by deploying armed police and army to instigate fear and intimidation is not healthy for indian Democracy. These are the ways that pit govt. against people. Democracy is for the people, by the people and to the people. NOt against the people.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Prasad,
    Your assumption that govt. denying the just demand of telangana people would render disintegration in future is false.
    It means that people in telangana do not respect the Indian identity.
    You cannot withhold the right ful demands of people by propagating such false notion.

    ReplyDelete
  97. @Sravan
    If u see how KCR started it all with his hunger strike until death and with threats to 'bring center to knees' etc.. all this may seem democratic to u. Such hunger strikes itself are undemocratic and the consequences of hunger strikes instigates protesters to break law and order, take law into their hands etc. Forget about Telangana, do u support such tactics to achieve ANY demands because people who carry them out often will put it in terms that they justify it?

    Democracy is for the people but democracy gives u the responsibility to exercise it carefully, realizing the consequences of actions when used by others to further their goals.

    Seeking a state is democratic and no one can deny that right but means are as important as ends in democracy as people themselves are caretakers in democracy. They should safeguard it from misuse.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Sravan:
    "Your assumption that govt. denying the just demand of telangana people would render disintegration in future is false.
    It means that people in telangana do not respect the Indian identity.
    You cannot withhold the right ful demands of people by propagating such false notion."

    Govt has never denied NOR it can constitutionally deny the demand for Telangana unless it is on the grounds of national interest. Center has not taken a decision in its favor till dec 9 but it has NEVER denied the demand.

    I too never said that Telangana creation will lead to disintegration. I clearly said, in all above messages, that I do not support the means being used to achieve the state - using undemocratic means such as hunger strike, using lies and hatred to prevent public debate and not following the path of clearing insecurities of stakeholders etc.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Green_Star:
    "Dumbo, inspite of people like u, you dont know the difference between the examples and reality. Sujai took a imaginary situation, which you fail to understand."

    If u care to look at the facts:
    ------------
    Sujai: "We don’t claim cities to a religion or a caste; we claim it to a region."

    Me: "Thats ur problem. We claim cities and towns to a country, to whose constitution and sovereignity we all owe allegiance to. If u say Hyd belongs to one region, it also belongs to the state and to the country. I can work, buy home, stay in Chennai or any corner of the country. Similarly, any Indian citizen can claim Hyd as their city. Get ur basics right."

    Sujai: "Well, I beg to differ here."
    -------
    It is here that Sujai said region is important than country as according to him 'Country could break' while somehow his region would NOT change where it belongs. To exemplify that he took the ridiculous scenario of India breaking up while somehow his region remains the same.

    Several Hindus in Pakistan region migrated to India during partition. Why? What happened to their 'region'? Countries survive... NOT the regions.

    By the way, are u his lapdog... always saying yes blindly to what he says. Don't u have any individuality or sense of justice? Did I say anything wrong in the above conversation that undermines an Indian's allegiance to India, not to ANY region or community or caste they belong to?

    Crazy... I cannot imagine this is sychophants den.

    ReplyDelete
  100. @Prasad:

    If u see how KCR started it all with his hunger strike until death and with threats to 'bring center to knees' etc.. all this may seem democratic to u. Such hunger strikes itself are undemocratic and the consequences of hunger strikes instigates protesters to break law and order, take law into their hands etc. Forget about Telangana, do u support such tactics to achieve ANY demands because people who carry them out often will put it in terms that they justify it?

    Your hero Potti Sriramulu did exactly the same, and our hero Mahatma Gandhi did the same. You have every right as a human to fight an unjust government.

    Protests are integral to any vibrant democracy.

    ReplyDelete
  101. @ Sravan, Prasad:

    Your assumption that govt. denying the just demand of telangana people would render disintegration in future is false. It means that people in telangana do not respect the Indian identity.

    Telangana supported keep carrying Indian flag when they protest for Telangana. They reaffirm faith in India and hope it will genuinely solve its problems within the confines of Indian Constitution. They are frustrated that India is not following the constitution methods of recognizing the people’s representatives and instead is recognizing unanimity within political parties – and political parties are not even recognized entities in Indian Constitution.

    We, the people of Telangana, fight for implementing of Indian Constitution, and save us from the bludgeoning of majority of Andhras that force us into submission.

    ReplyDelete
  102. @Prasad:

    Govt has never denied NOR it can constitutionally deny the demand for Telangana unless it is on the grounds of national interest.

    Govt has denied the demand for Telangana by subverting Indian Constitution. The current delay is denial. There is no threat to national interest in creating Telangana. In fact, there perceived threat was bigger when Andhra State was formed out of Madras Presidency.

    I clearly said, in all above messages, that I do not support the means being used to achieve the state - using undemocratic means such as hunger strike,

    We find it democratic, more democratic than the farce called State Assembly where the majority suppresses minority continuously. The methods employed by Telangana agitators are the methods employed by our freedom fighters.

    using lies and hatred to prevent public debate and not following the path of clearing insecurities of stakeholders etc.

    Well, whether Indians were being discriminated by British could be a lie to British but it was a veritable truth to Indians. Public debate is not shunned in Telangana. You can stand in middle of Karimnagar and criticize KCR, stand in middle of Nizamabad and criticize Madhu Yaskhi.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Nayeem:

    First - you should mention to all of us, whether you commend OR condemn the following:

    1. Shoiabulla khan
    2. Shaikh Bandagi
    3. Turrebaaz Khan

    and many more muslims who represented people (Not just muslims)and fought for them.

    ReplyDelete
  104. @Prasad:

    So, what are u gonna do about it? I guess the topic came up because of Sujai's article, it is not random. Isn't it nice to see people asking tough questions why something should or should not be done?

    But your concerns are so hollow. If not for wanting Hyderabad, I don’t think you have any interest in the plight of Hyderabadi Muslims. Most of your Andhra friends do not want old city Hyderabad with them in the joint capital. They are interested in ‘cyberabad’.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Sujai:

    If u just care about UR GOALS and justify ANY means to achieve it calling them democratic and demonizing alternate viewpoints, we will use ALL democratic means to oppose it.

    Indians CANNOT live as neighboring states with hatred for one another based on lies and figments of imagination. Also, we will NOT allow democracy to be hijacked by terrorists, naxalites, other movements for reservations based on caste, religion and other divisions, regional differences to further their selfish ends UNLESS THEY FOLLOW DUE PROCESS, respecting alternate viewpoints and following the path of negotiations and building consensus.

    Future generations of neighboring states in INDIA cannot live on lies and hatred. They affect lives on both sides. Let the facts come out before a decision is taken.

    ReplyDelete
  106. @Prasad:

    Does this guy know the concept of sovereignity? We swear by Indian constitution and strive to protect the unity and integrity of India, NOT MY STATE NOT MY REGION.

    Who is talking about sovereignty here? When states divide, the cities go with the regions. There is no sovereignty involved. The EXAMPLE was made to drive a point.

    He trivializes breakup of India…

    ;-)

    There is an article on this blog called ‘peevish indians’ that discusses people like you who get upset with almost anything. Can’t have a mature discussion with them.

    Is NOT there is difference between belonging to ONE country and belonging to a continent? Does he even know/have NATIONALISM?

    I love my country but I don’t subscribe to your theories of nationalism, because under the garb of nationalism you want to suppress us. And nationalism is no prerequisite to live in this country.

    Who needs enemies like Pakistan and China and traitors…

    Who needs enemies like Pakistan and China when we have Andhras next doors? ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  107. Prasad,
    You seem to perceive telangana movement as a movement associated with one person KCR.
    That is false.
    Next you seem to carry a notion that it is undemocratic and unhealthy to Indian Democracy to carry out pressure movements.
    False, pressure movements are accepted methods of democratic protests.

    ReplyDelete
  108. //Who needs enemies like Pakistan and China when we have Andhras next doors? ;-)//
    That's exactly how ppl in Old City feel about Telangana....

    ReplyDelete
  109. Sujai:
    "Govt has denied the demand for Telangana by subverting Indian Constitution. The current delay is denial."

    YOU CANNOT BE A VICTIM AND A JUDGE. Why dont u and ur hired lawyers go to court to challenge the govt? Govt is challenged several times when laws are not followed. Why dont u go to courts to prove ur case? It is u who has not followed the responsibilities as a citizen by using ur rights but avoiding responsibilities.

    "We find it democratic"
    Good... U might get a healthy dose of these in ur new state to create anarchy and instability. Then, I will see what ur stand will be. If both sides resort to them, where will it lead to?

    "You can stand in middle of Karimnagar and criticize KCR, stand in middle of Nizamabad and criticize Madhu Yaskhi."

    U call criticizing these scumbags as public debate? Then, what is it we are doing in this forum. Why NOT discuss all the facts, verifying accusations and counter accusations in media and other public forums to prove them?

    ReplyDelete
  110. @Sravan:

    U r thinking hunger strike until death is accepted pressure tactic? What if it is used by terrorists using innocent civilians to get their demands fulfilled in Kashmir and other parts, such as securing the release of held terrorists etc? Of course the excuse the hunger strike will be carried out is the held terrorist is innocent and evidence is fabricated. R u ok if the released 'innocent' land in ur neighbourhood and kill ur relatives?

    ReplyDelete
  111. Sujai:
    "But your concerns are so hollow. If not for wanting Hyderabad, I don’t think you have any interest in the plight of Hyderabadi Muslims. Most of your Andhra friends do not want old city Hyderabad with them in the joint capital. They are interested in ‘cyberabad’."

    Same with u. If u genuinely care about muslims in Telangana, they would have been better off than in Hyd. U think they could be bought with veiled threats about 'Nizam fate' AND reservations 'carrot'. Those days of votebank politics are gone. On what basis r u saying reservations will be given? Do u have the sanction of constitution? Do city Muslims have sufficient education levels to work for local govt jobs? What about other groups? Did u discuss with everyone, i.e. other groups, before offering 12-15% reservations in educational and employment opps?

    ReplyDelete
  112. Prasad,
    No hunger strike would lead pressure unless the demand is just and supported by the people. Why don't you test it yurselves?
    Try to begin a hunger strike to make your neighbour give away his land to you and your family. Let us see how much support you can gather from the community.
    And your notion that any body who supports Kashmir separation is terrorist, is fallacious.
    I actually support the people of Kashmir to adopt such democratic means like hunger strikes to seek unfulfilled promise of plebicite and separation, rather than indulging in terrorizing outfits that are supported by pakistan. I think they would be eventually successful if they adopt hunger strike. World would really know if people od Kashmir support separation from Indian Union.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Sujai:
    So, r u after old city for 'Charity' or menial labour? Why sudden love AFTER forming JAC, bribing ALL sundray groups like MRPS, leftist orgs to join JAC while ignoring MIM?

    ReplyDelete
  114. Sravan,
    U r like a romantic poet who thinks only the best comes out of every means being used by Telangana and there cannot be any side effects or negative repercussions in ANY form. Apparently, democratic govts DO NOT think that way. Otherwise, they will soon have huger death competitions on both sides when emotions run high. One death is enough on both sides to be on throats at each other. U have to be realistic.

    ReplyDelete
  115. More than what you think Telangana movement is, I think you have more hatred against telangana poor and Muslims. You seem to have a very bad opinion on Muslims of Hyderabad.
    We do not carry that hatred towards andhra or any body. We simply are trying to get telangana from the marginalization it is undergoing in the state of AP.
    You should learn to distinguish between hatred, difference of opinions and aspirations.
    Telangana movement is against the agreements and promises that were putforth to allow formation of AP but ultimately broken.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Prasad,
    you cannot suppress a just demand of people by intimidating them with unforeseen circumstances that may or may not happen in reality.
    Now who is not seeing the truth? Me or you?

    ReplyDelete
  117. I actually support the people of Kashmir to adopt such democratic means like hunger strikes to seek unfulfilled promise of plebicite and separation, rather than indulging in terrorizing outfits that are supported by pakistan. I think they would be eventually successful if they adopt hunger strike. World would really know if people od Kashmir support separation from Indian Union.

    If that is the case you go and join the ranks of Kashmir militants and leave alone this non-sense and let us live the way we are in Hyderabad.This statement of your smacks of arrogance and treachery.Hey think of the Army heros whose statues are there all over Telangana.If you are speaking what you are speaking it is the grace of our troops who proctec you day and night.

    ReplyDelete
  118. nayeem Please try to read carefully, then assimilate in entirity what is said, before you begin to comment.
    I said I would support Kashmiri terrorists if they give up their terrorism and resort to democratic means to achieve their demands.

    ReplyDelete
  119. //I said I would support Kashmiri terrorists if they give up their terrorism and resort to democratic means to achieve their demands.//
    Kashmir is an integral part of India and that's that.Democratically or undemocratically peole might agitate but no way any Indian will concede any inch of territory.If you want you can preach them democratic means and organize "Kashmir Dhoom Dham" nobody cares....

    ReplyDelete
  120. nayeem:

    //Who needs enemies like Pakistan and China when we have Andhras next doors? ;-)//

    That's exactly how ppl in Old City feel about Telangana....


    That was more like a joke. You will understand it if you see it in context of what Prasad wrote, but you took it seriously. Never mind.

    So, coming to serious aspects.

    Let me say this, I don’t think there will be any anger towards Andhras once the new state of Telangana is formed. The delay is increasing the anger, but it will disappear once the state is formed. Look how Andhras and Tamils do not have animosity now. However, if Andhras were forced to live with Tamils, there would have been lot of anger.

    Coming to what you said:

    That's exactly how ppl in Old City feel about Telangana....

    I have clearly laid out my plan of action to get away from Andhra rule for people of Telangana. What is your plan of action to get away from people of Telangana?

    If people in Telangana are your enemies, how do you see the future of old city Muslims living in the middle of Telangana? What should Indian democracy do to protect you from Telangana people?

    It’s becoming clear that you don’t consider yourself Telangana, but only as Muslim. My fear is that your statements are supporting the theory that Muslims do not have any allegiance to the country or the region but only to their religion. Please clarify.

    If you say that you have allegiance only to the country and not to the region, which is fine with me, please tell me which region is preferable to you, if not Telangana? And how do you plan to move your people there? Or are you thinking of creating an island for yourself in the middle of Telangana? Nothing is ridiculous at this point of time. You can propose anything you want.

    I am curious to understand how Telanganas are different from you. Frankly I don’t know what that means either. Do you think Telanganas are only Hindus and not Muslims living in Telangana? Or do you think they are the ones who speak Telugu but not Urdu?

    If you are not Telanganas, what are you? Andhras? Or just Muslims?

    ReplyDelete
  121. Nayeem,
    Kashmir is an integral part of India and that's that.Democratically or undemocratically peole might agitate but no way any Indian will concede any inch of territory.If you want you can preach them democratic means and organize "Kashmir Dhoom Dham" nobody cares....
    Well that is your own opinion. And your opinion does not change the truth that Kashmir today is suffering due to conflicts.
    Well... I really would like to see such democratic methods of protest in Kashmir and I expect indian govt. to appropriately respect their democratic demands. If you are unaware of the case history of Kashmir I cannot help you. Indian govt. promised a plebicite in Kashmir during its temporary accession. I strongly deplore Indian govt. for keeping Indian people in shadows by not letting them know about the temporary accesion of Kashmir. Instead most students in India still believe that the POK is integral part of India, where as this part had never been under Indian control since Independence. Instead of securing a peaceful commmunal atmosphere in Kashmir India simply ignored the issue. This resulted in violent expulsion of Kashmiri Pandit minority out of the region.
    If india quickly want to settle the issue, it should indulge in developing a peaceful solution and at the same time curb the terrorist insurgency. If it ignores any of it then it is going to endanger entire nation. It has to provide a peaceful platform for Kashmiris to express their demands by conducting the plebicite that was promised during accession. By indefinitely delaying it our govt. is encouraging unrest. And at same time curbing the unrest with force. What we need in kashmir is a responsible people's movement that would assume a democratic means to express their demands. And India should repect all democratic demands instead of curbing them with the same force that is enacted against the terrorist outfits.
    I am not disrespecting the Army heroes who laid down lives fighting against terrorists and Foreign intruders. I am trying to help provide a solution. A solution to achieve which our army heroes laid down their lives. If India does not take the necessary steps our Army sacrifies do not have any meaning. Their sacrifice fighting against Indian enemies and fighting to achieve peace in the region would go waste.

    ReplyDelete
  122. @Prasad,

    Most of your comments are in tandem with what YOU think are right or wrong.

    If you cannot respect others perspective,please do not jump arguments for the sake of it.

    Coming to your question of means justifying ends and vice-versa.

    Do we not TILL the land for food??
    ARE we disrespecting mother earth??

    How do you justify a mother punishing her erring child.Is it to correct him or is it personal vendetta??????

    A surgeon should not perform surgery because he is going to draw blood from the person.

    Your logic sounds quite childish.

    We are already seeing how the government has played so many dirty tricks......

    The O.U campus scenes,the lathi charges,the way suicides are treated,media is manhandled,local
    media refusing coverage....and many more.

    ARE they not wrong???
    What did you expect,that atrocities should be endured quietly??

    We are humans first and then every thing else later.
    Some of the incidents are against even basic human character.

    The govt cannot make,break or modify laws according to their convenience.


    If most of the parties have promised telangana before elections and did not keep up their promise after it,
    what other options do you suggest??

    @Nayeem,

    It is not a question of if,it,s a question of when and on what conditions is Telangana formed.

    And the minorities should act smart and safeguard themselves in the new state.The time is apt to make or change their stand regarding all important issues.

    Do you still want the same conditions to prevail in the old city?????

    Dont you want the children having proper educational and infrastructural facilities??

    Dont you think your argument that wakf lands are taken away sound a little peevish,

    Please go and check who occupied or bought those lands.
    You are saying that the muslims must live in fear and huddled even after so many years advanced technology,just because they think that they will lose their identity.

    You want to be united for the sake of being united?????

    MIM can only support some aspects of the community,not all.

    Otherwise oldcity would not be in the condition it is in now.

    Take this oppurtunity and ask your leaders to make sure you are not lost out in the new state.

    The early bird gets the worm......

    Several of the united andhra arguments are hollow as they were started by andhra politicians,for their own selfish needs.
    Most of them are the same land grabbers you so vehemently opposed.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Regarding the new state formation why do you oppose it so????

    A politicians job is to protect and safeguard his peoples right.

    They cannot make the govt sanction funds for development with a small representation in the assembly.

    The MIM is respected,but none of its constituencies enjoy any development,though they are so close to all the development hyderabad is witnessing in the past several years.

    You must take this oppurtunity and do just that.
    Ensure that certain promises are made and actions taken.

    These conditions must be just and fair to all,and not just one community.
    Times have changed,and deals are not signed and changes made behind closed doors anymore.

    We have understood what this kind of discrimination has done to us.
    We are imploring you,ll to support us in it.

    Why is that so difficult to understand???

    Are we Chinese and Pakistani,s to you,ll????

    The old city is surrounded with and co-existing with Hindu,s all around them.
    Does your comment not hurt our feelings now??

    Your fears are not withot reason,but you are making a mountain of a mole.

    ReplyDelete
  124. @ Sujai

    And nationalism is no prerequisite to live in this country.

    Respecting Telangana 'culture' is also not a prerequisite to live in Telangana.

    ReplyDelete
  125. If most of the parties have promised telangana before elections and did not keep up their promise after it,
    what other options do you suggest??

    L_dyapa,
    most people wrongly assume that democratic method means only elections and alleginace to political parties. They do not understand that political parties face elections to attain seat in the government. They are suppoed to be responsible for people. But in a democratic set up parties are not accountable. These people wrongly assume that elections and political parties are the only democratic methods. They fail to understand that they are only partly correct. Apart from this there are several other democratic methods.
    The NCERT text book on Democratic Politics states that....
    Democracy evolves through
    popular struggles. It is possible that some significant decisions may take place through consensus and may not involve any conflict at all. But that would be an
    exception. Defining moments of
    democracy usually involve conflict
    between those groups who have
    exercised power and those who aspire for a share in power. These moments come when the country is going through transition to democracy, expansion of democracy or deepening of democracy.

    􀁺 Democratic conflict is resolved
    through mass mobilisation. Sometimes it is possible that the conflict is resolved by using the existing institutions like the
    parliament or the judiciary. But when there is a deep dispute, very often these institutions themselves get involved in the
    dispute. The resolution has to come
    from outside, from the people.

    􀁺 These conflicts and mobilisations arebased on new political organisations.
    True, there is an element of spontaneity in all such historic moments. But the spontaneous public participation becomes effective with the help of
    organised politics. There can be many agencies of organised politics. These include political parties, pressure groups and movement groups.


    It is clear that consensus and political parties are only one of the methods to achieve democratic demands. It stresses further that most demands in history are achieved through popular struggles rather than consensus and political parties. It describe this as democracy and not anarchy.

    ReplyDelete
  126. //It’s becoming clear that you don’t consider yourself Telangana, but only as Muslim. My fear is that your statements are supporting the theory that Muslims do not have any allegiance to the country or the region but only to their religion. Please clarify. //
    I told you amply that the Muslims don't bother much about allegiance to the region.Muslims do have allegiance to the country and to the religion.You might know there are so many Shiv and Venkateswara temples and hindu eateries,everybody lives side by side infact more harmoniously than in the new city.Hindu are more fluent in urdu than most of the muslims are.
    Religion is the glue that binds all the muslims all over India.I don't see anything wrong with it.The problems across India confronted by Muslims are similar Being a minority ,muslims tend to think beyond the region and state.Of course there are a entire gamut of problems in the Old City like education,sanitation,standard of living.Now you want to present a new challenge in form of Telangana.
    Hey there were many muslim students who have lost thier lives in 1969 agitation.I've mentioned in one of my earlier posts about concerns that muslims have and how the Telangana failed to address them.Immediately after the plice action out of 16 secretaries only 1 was non-muslim, out of 118 officer posts posts in the secretariat only 16 were held by Hindus and Christians.In Osmania University and Nizam College and Mahaboob and City Colleges a majority of the teaching and non-teaching faculties were from Muslim community.I don't say that Nizam was a total benefactor of the Muslim community.He too had his frailties and appeasement of nobles and the spoonerism in the King Koti palace.But that is different,atleast the major concerns in Old City were attende to.There were so many good schools and there was more educational awareness in the muslim community than Christian and Hindu communities.What's happening now.What now there was a systematic attempt to wean away Muslims from Govt positions and dissuade from entering into higher education portals.Added to that there is an insecurity right at the kids level that there cannot succeed in this competitive world and there is no motivation or incentive.The schools are sub standard and teachers too don't take any interest.It is the Andhra schools and Colleges that are giving a helping hand.
    There is an apprehension,good ,bad or indifferent, that if the status quo is disturbed there will be structural change in the lives of Muslims or even Hindus in Old City.Everybody is used to a way of life.It took so many years and decades to settle down in this present set-up.
    How would life improve if Telangana forms.Hyderabad is already a capital and still Old City is a back yard.Old City is right a stone throw distance from Assembly,did you see how Mallepally or Nampally areas are? How or why will Telangana formation improve ? Are there any examples of Telangana politicians or leaders or even students to allay the apprehensions.Nobody thinks that Old City's opinion is important.The parties think that perforce , the Old City to submit to their wishes at the drop of the hat throwing some bread crumbs.

    ReplyDelete
  127. @ Sujai

    You are showing carrot and stick to Hyd muslims . You are threatening them with isolation and future repercussions if they dont support T state. You are trying to throw in a carrot of 'safeguards' if they support T state.

    Tell me one thing , you say 'safeguards' for muslims are justified , then shouldnt they get them irrespective of their support for T state ? Or will you give those safeguards only if they support T state ?

    ReplyDelete
  128. Reality
    Respecting Telangana 'culture' is also not a prerequisite to live in Telangana.
    Your conclusion is truly farfetching.
    You are wrong in extrapolating the concept of nationalism to culture.
    It is true that nationalism is not a prerequisite to live in India, it is a desirable characteristic. India and its people have to try to inculcate it in a rational way(not as a kind of fundamentalism). It should be achieved by allowing people to prosper as Indian national, respecting their individualities, traditions and culture. This is known as harmony.
    And your extrapolation is against the concept of harmony.
    Hope you understand the difference.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Nayeem,
    I only see from you argument that Muslims would have fared well and would have greater representation if telangana was separate.
    United state failed muslims to some extent. And certainly their representation in separate telangana is going to be more.
    And you are right that in such scenario some fundamentalist hindu groups might exercise communal tactics to suppress the muslims. But you should understand that it is possible only if hyderabad is separated from telangana. It would pit the muslims of hyderabad against non-muslims of hyderabad.
    As part of telangana Muslims would garner more representation than conflicts. As a whole in telangana historically there had been more support to secular parties than those that promote sectarian politics. The andhra dominated media and film has done its job well to recondition every one to believe that Telangana people are only goons, rowdies and war mongers.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Tell me one thing , you say 'safeguards' for muslims are justified , then shouldnt they get them irrespective of their support for T state ? Or will you give those safeguards only if they support T state ?

    Reality has lost his comprehensive and analytical skills in the urge and enthusiasm to blindly counter argue.
    Reality,
    Would you please go through your question again??

    ReplyDelete
  131. // Indian govt. promised a plebicite in Kashmir during its temporary accession.//
    The plebiscite was also promised in Hyderabad and a standstill agreement was signed.The Instrument of accession and the subsequent ratification of J and K Constitution consummates its union with India.
    Regarding comments that I said wherein Telangana is an enemy ,there were said in the same vein
    Suaji said.Hey 99% of Hindus in Old City have roots in Telangana districts.I mean't to point out the apprehensions.I told earlier how there are some really ancient temples like Ranganatha Temple,Shiv temple,Akkanna Maddana temple.The old city is a place where there is lot of interaction with the people on a day to day basis not a mechanical life that exist in cities else where.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Nayeem,
    but popular opinion in hyderabad was in favor of unification. One of the reasons for the telangana rebellion was Nizam's resistance to accede to India and to continue the feudal government.Still I think India should consider plebicite in Hyderabad state, snce it promised one. I can easily estimate what the result is going to be. Do you have any doubts about that??
    In Kashmir, the plebicite promise and the ratification of the J& k constitution are one of the main roots of trouble.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Nayeem,
    I am aware of several muslims in Old City who have roots and relatives in telangana districts. My close friend's family is from Karimnagar and they still hold agricultural land in Karimnagar and ancestral home in Warangal. But he had been living in old city since his birth.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Nayeem,
    the situation of old city is no different from the situation of other telangana cities and villages.
    I would say old city is far better than these places being as a part of capital.
    Would you deny that MIM has been trying to indulge in glorifying the muslim hegemony under Nizam's feudal regime???

    ReplyDelete
  135. @reality:

    Respecting Telangana 'culture' is also not a prerequisite to live in Telangana.

    We said that already. You act like a kid who woke up in the middle of the movie and start asking the basic questions.

    ReplyDelete
  136. @ Sravan

    And may be you are unaware that Indian govt. took a decisive action only when Nizam approached the govt. unable to control the deteriorating situation.
    If it was not the indian army, then the telangana rebels would have set him on fire.


    So Indian army moved in Hyderabad to save Nizam . Where did you read this ,Sir ? In a RSS,VHP,BJP propaganda pamphlet ?

    The lands that were freed from the feudal lords were forcefully returned to them by persecuting innocent villagers.

    Many T commentators in this blog said many times that land reforms were done after Nizam was defeated and there are no feudal lords in Telangana after 1948.

    As per your claims ,Indian govt reveresed these land reforms and reinstated Doras.

    Please clarify which version is true ?

    ReplyDelete
  137. Nayeem,

    First do the needful, kick out MIM - I am stunned at how MIM can talk about Iraq and Afghanistan in certain public meetings when we have our own set of development issues! You had a great opportunity to teach Asad a lesson this time, but you didn't! His opponent, a very well respected muslim just couldn't gather enough support, but had he succeeded you would begin to see light at the end of the tunnel!

    Someone recently pointed out to me - certain parts of Hyderabad have not been getting proper piped drinking water for ages now, but certain new localities in certain regions get all the facilities overnight! Why? Because you need officials who relate to local people, and that does not happen now! When people talk about jobs, it is not just about the 10 lakh odd jobs across all cross sections, but it is about how these people getting jobs indirectly relate to 'their people' and 'their region'! That, believe me, will make a difference!

    Recently a muslim who settled in Hyderabad from Calcutta was telling me that muslims of Hyderabad don't tolerate other religions at all, which I strongly debated. I have a lot of muslim friends and I know that we can relate to each other in our food, a bit in language and even to an extent in our habits. But I have never spent too much time in old city, so I couldn't make a strong point on that while debating with him. But, if at all there is an increasing gap on religious lines, it is because of parties like MIM who flourish on those gaps!

    ReplyDelete
  138. Reality,
    You prove that you do not have sufficient historical knowledge on telangana.
    The land reforms in telangana began with bhoodan movement that started in the heart of telangana. They were reinforced by the land reforms enacted by PVN Rao(the main reason why rayalseema protested PVN and both andhra and seema conducted their own legislative assembly in Tirupathi).
    Coupled with this the Naxalite insurgency that engulfed the region in 1980's and 90's weakened the dratically weakened the feudal land holdings. You will rarely find any land lord in Telangana who holds more than 100 acres of agricultural land.

    ReplyDelete
  139. @reality:

    Tell me one thing , you say 'safeguards' for muslims are justified , then shouldnt they get them irrespective of their support for T state ? Or will you give those safeguards only if they support T state ?

    We believe that safeguards for all Telanganas including Muslims are justified, but we couldn’t get them enforced in united Andhra Pradesh because of suppression by majority Andhras.

    Now is the time, when we are free from the clutches of Andhra majority rule that we can actually implement safeguards within Telangana.

    It’s asking Indians why they could not implement Hindu Code Bill under British. The answer is simple – we were never in control.

    ReplyDelete
  140. @ Sravan

    //Respecting Telangana 'culture' is also not a prerequisite to live in Telangana.

    We said that already. You act like a kid who woke up in the middle of the movie and start asking the basic questions.//

    Then why are you making a fuss about andhras not respecting Telangana culture. You follow your culture ,we follow our culture. So far in this country no state was created on the basis of culture.

    //It’s asking Indians why they could not implement Hindu Code Bill under British. The answer is simple – we were never in control.//

    You didnt answer my actual question. In T state to be formed ,will muslims get 'safeguards' or not ? Will this depend on their present stance on Telangana ? Answer these questions .

    Also , United AP govt gave muslims 4% quota . Even though courts have stuck it down ,it is still appealing in SC.

    ReplyDelete
  141. @ nayeem:

    I told you amply that the Muslims don't bother much about allegiance to the region.Muslims do have allegiance to the country and to the religion.

    Good. Therefore it should not matter to you whether you are in Telangana or in Andhra Pradesh. So, why oppose Telangana?

    You might know there are so many Shiv and Venkateswara temples and hindu eateries,everybody lives side by side infact more harmoniously than in the new city.Hindu are more fluent in urdu than most of the muslims are.

    So what does it tell you? Why are you creating a bogey of BJP rule to oppose Telangana formation?

    Religion is the glue that binds all the muslims all over India.I don't see anything wrong with it.

    I don’t see anything wrong with that. However, the current agitation is not about Hindus or Muslims. It is about people who live in Telangana including Hindus and Muslims. So, how come you are showing your apathy to this problem of Telanganas?

    The problems across India confronted by Muslims are similar Being a minority ,muslims tend to think beyond the region and state.

    Good that you think that way. When you think that way, you shouldn’t mind being in Telangana instead of being in Andhra Pradesh. Why opposition? Why can’t it be a neutral stand?

    Of course there are a entire gamut of problems in the Old City like education,sanitation,standard of living.Now you want to present a new challenge in form of Telangana.

    Do you see it as an opportunity to address those problems that old city is facing? Or do you want to see it as a challenge that you don’t want to embark on?

    Since you want to stay neutral, what is your cost-benefit analysis? Won’t you gain by supporting Telanagana agitation? Like, say conditional support, where you say that you need so many funds, such safeguards, such reservations, etc?

    Hey there were many muslim students who have lost thier lives in 1969 agitation.I've mentioned in one of my earlier posts about concerns that muslims have and how the Telangana failed to address them.

    According to me Telangana leaders failed to deliver on the promises to Telangana people, including Muslims. So you are not the exception. Now, we are fighting that old system, and bring in separate Telangana so that our leaders actually live up to the aspirations of Telangana people, and according to me, that includes Muslims, though you don’t include yourself into Telangana. I don’t see how old city Muslims are going to gain from opposition to the current Telangana agitation.

    Immediately after the plice action out of 16 secretaries only 1 was non-muslim, out of 118 officer posts posts in the secretariat only 16 were held by Hindus and Christians. In Osmania University and Nizam College and Mahaboob and City Colleges a majority of the teaching and non-teaching faculties were from Muslim community.

    What is that you want? Bring back Nizam rule? Or bring back better representation for Muslims? If it is the latter, please educate me on how your current opposition to Telangana agitation is going to help better Muslims’ representations?

    I can think of many ways how Muslim representation is going to better through support for Telangana agitation.

    Contd..

    ReplyDelete
  142. @nayeem:

    I don't say that Nizam was a total benefactor of the Muslim community.He too had his frailties and appeasement of nobles and the spoonerism in the King Koti palace.But that is different,atleast the major concerns in Old City were attende to.There were so many good schools and there was more educational awareness in the muslim community than Christian and Hindu communities.

    British rule was very good to some communities and to princes. Does that mean we should wish for British rule once again? Do you wish you were part of Nizam State, and that India should have never annexed Hyderabad, where only Muslims were given preference over Hindus? I don’t really understand what you are trying to explain here.

    What's happening now.What now there was a systematic attempt to wean away Muslims from Govt positions and dissuade from entering into higher education portals.Added to that there is an insecurity right at the kids level that there cannot succeed in this competitive world and there is no motivation or incentive.The schools are sub standard and teachers too don't take any interest.It is the Andhra schools and Colleges that are giving a helping hand.

    So, you think that Andhra Rule is better than Telanganas ruling themselves? On one side you say the current setup has not helped you and on the other side you don’t want to upset the current setup.

    There is an apprehension,good ,bad or indifferent, that if the status quo is disturbed there will be structural change in the lives of Muslims or even Hindus in Old City. Everybody is used to a way of life.It took so many years and decades to settle down in this present set-up.

    You are fighting against a change that is inevitable. Nizam opposed the change that was inevitable – look how disastrous it was for the people of Telangana?

    How would life improve if Telangana forms.

    The way life improved after British left.

    Nobody thinks that Old City's opinion is important.

    And by opposing the Telangana agitation you are only proving it further.

    The parties think that perforce , the Old City to submit to their wishes at the drop of the hat throwing some bread crumbs.

    On the other hand, I expect you to take charge and push your wish-list in the current agitation because many a times such agitations help the cause of people. If not for participation of Ambedkar and Dalits in the independence movement it would have been difficult to provide reservations to lower castes.

    ReplyDelete
  143. @ Sravan

    You made a statement that "land reforms that were started by T people were reveresed by Indian govt."

    Now you are saying that " land reforms of 50's were reinforced by PV"

    So ,is your earlier statement false or is it a exaggeration ?

    ReplyDelete
  144. @nayeem:

    You ask us how come Telangana leaders did not help Muslims in old city. I ask you how come MIM did not help Muslims in old city. Why are they in such a state?

    According to me, those answers are found in the current Telangana agitation. Take a closer look at the problems this region has. Self-rule is important. And while we make this new state, make sure you get your representation.

    ReplyDelete
  145. @Prasad:

    Do you support Potti Sriramulu’s struggle for Andhra State? Do you support Indian Independence movement against British?

    Sravan:

    Don’t answer any of Prasad’s questions till he answers these. He has been evading these questions for quite some time now.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Reality,
    I meant that the lands seized by the telengana rebels in 1948 from feudal lords were returned to the feudal lords after the Police action.
    Try to read it chronologically and you will understand what I meant.

    ReplyDelete
  147. @MIM:

    Thanks for answering the questions that I asked.

    I see that you fear the change. You are OK with the status quo because you think it is better than anything the change is going to bring about. I can sympathize with your fears, but I am not sure if they are real. I do agree with you that Muslims need “political representation and reservations in educational and employment” and that “they should have strong incentives to educate children, especially girls.”

    When you think about it, the fight for Telangana is not very different. I include backward communities, lower castes in addition to Muslims. I strongly believe a new Telangana will be an opportunity. The difference between you and me is that while you fear the change, I am looking forward to the change, otherwise we are seeking the same.

    Another difference between you and me is that I believe that what I seek for has a chance of happening in new Telangana and not in the current setup. Whereas you feel that the current setup is better than what is going to come.

    When I am fighting for Telangana, I am fighting for my people, and that includes Muslims of Telangana. I am hoping that we may get a chance to set some good examples here. And that is possible only if MIM, which is the only Muslim party in the region, comes out and participates in the change to actually influence the change in a way that makes our wishes possible.

    Look at our history. Ambedkar was at loggerheads with most of Congress leader and yet his participation in freedom struggle was important because he was given a special place when it came to writing Constitution, in which he emancipated lower castes of India, and that led to the greatest revolution of mankind. Why I call that the greatest revolution of mankind is because no other revolution has set so many people free with one stroke.

    Being part of the struggle is important. If you shun it you won’t be part of it, and therefore you will not be able to influence the change in your direction.

    When the wind is moving in a direction, and you think it is going to bring a change, we can take it as an opportunity to set things right. MIM shunning Telangana agitation is a bad political decision according to me.

    You say that you share a common identity with people of this region, so do you think the modern Telangana Hindus are any different from those that came from Hyderabad State? Don’t you think that if you embrace the cause of Telangana people, including so many Muslims outside old city Hyderabad, it will be welcomed?

    These are the times when new ties are made, old chains are broken. You have to come out of your closet and participate in the change that is sweeping across entire Telangana.

    I fear that MIM’s opposition to Telangana cause will not be in the best interests of Muslims of the region. Read history, take a look at all the instances when a small pocket of people took a wrong political decision, tried to stop that was inevitable, supported the wrong people, and how it has impacted the individuals of the community.

    ReplyDelete
  148. Reality,
    Check my replys again. Don't get confused and lost in over enthusiasm.

    ReplyDelete
  149. @MIM:

    I have looked at the scenario you presented. I am not sure if that is the only scenario that is possible. I can come up with few others which don’t look as bad. According to me, what you presented as a scenario has few missing ingredients. I will discuss that.

    When you said TDP and TRS will become irrelevant, you immediately concluded that BJP is going to fill the vacant role. I don’t see BJP taking that role at all.

    I am equally critical of rise of Hindutva in this country. I fear a Hindu State and an Islamic State. Since India becoming a Hindu State has better chances than becoming Islamic State, you will see me fighting rise of Hindutva more.

    However, I don’t see that happening soon. NDA was in power for one term, and after that BJP has been on the wane in entire India. What does it show? Indian Hindus do not want Hindu State as much as we may fear. I have lot of confidence in this country.

    Its people will not allow it go that path. Though I have my fears which I express on this blog, I have lot of confidence in this nation and hence I keep the fight going instead of resigning in dejection.

    According to me, India takes 3 steps forward and 2 steps backward. But still it is trudging forward.

    BJP is definitely betting that some new states will embrace Hindutva but that has not happened in all the new states though BJP gave those new states.

    BJP won in 2004 elections in Uttarkhand but lost out to Congress in 2009. There is no way we can say that a new state will always reward BJP. Jharkhand never rewarded BJP for creating new state. Only Chattisgarh voted BJP, but then even MP has voted BJP.

    You need certain ingredients for Hindutva parties to rise in South, as seen in Karnataka. Those ingredients are: renewed nationalism or regionalism, pride in the nation or the region forcing others to embrace their version of culture which is pure and untainted by ‘alien’ religions, certain acts of violence, riots so that it fuels the fears of the majority Hindus.

    Most of these are absent in Telangana. There is no regionalism in Telangana unlike in Karnataka. If ever, we are running away from the ‘Telugu pride’ that is being imposed onto Telangana people. We discard the ‘pure’ version theories of Andhras and embrace the ‘influenced’ Telugu which has influences from Urdu.

    If you see the recent trends in Telangana, people are ready to shed the past prejudices of Nizam oppression and even making statements that praise him. Telangana fight is an inclusive fight, not an exclusive fight.

    You think BJP coming to power is simple just because there is power vacuum. But history will tell you that BJP could not muster much support in the last 53 years in Telangana even when there was vacuum.

    You think TRS will join BJP. But many indications suggest that it will join Congress because that’s where the actual numbers are. BJP doesn’t have so many seats in Telangana.

    [Contd...]

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  150. @MIM:

    I have looked at the scenario you presented. I am not sure if that is the only scenario that is possible. I can come up with few others which don’t look as bad. According to me, what you presented as a scenario has few missing ingredients. I will discuss that.

    When you said TDP and TRS will become irrelevant, you immediately concluded that BJP is going to fill the vacant role. I don’t see BJP taking that role at all.

    I am equally critical of rise of Hindutva in this country. I fear a Hindu State and an Islamic State. Since India becoming a Hindu State has better chances than becoming Islamic State, you will see me fighting rise of Hindutva more.

    However, I don’t see that happening soon. NDA was in power for one term, and after that BJP has been on the wane in entire India. What does it show? Indian Hindus do not want Hindu State as much as we may fear. I have lot of confidence in this country.

    Its people will not allow it go that path. Though I have my fears which I express on this blog, I have lot of confidence in this nation and hence I keep the fight going instead of resigning in dejection.

    According to me, India takes 3 steps forward and 2 steps backward. But still it is trudging forward.

    BJP is definitely betting that some new states will embrace Hindutva but that has not happened in all the new states though BJP gave those new states.

    BJP won in 2004 elections in Uttarkhand but lost out to Congress in 2009. There is no way we can say that a new state will always reward BJP. Jharkhand never rewarded BJP for creating new state. Only Chattisgarh voted BJP, but then even MP has voted BJP.

    You need certain ingredients for Hindutva parties to rise in South, as seen in Karnataka. Those ingredients are: renewed nationalism or regionalism, pride in the nation or the region forcing others to embrace their version of culture which is pure and untainted by ‘alien’ religions, certain acts of violence, riots so that it fuels the fears of the majority Hindus.

    Most of these are absent in Telangana. There is no regionalism in Telangana unlike in Karnataka. If ever, we are running away from the ‘Telugu pride’ that is being imposed onto Telangana people. We discard the ‘pure’ version theories of Andhras and embrace the ‘influenced’ Telugu which has influences from Urdu.

    If you see the recent trends in Telangana, people are ready to shed the past prejudices of Nizam oppression and even making statements that praise him. Telangana fight is an inclusive fight, not an exclusive fight.

    You think BJP coming to power is simple just because there is power vacuum. But history will tell you that BJP could not muster much support in the last 53 years in Telangana even when there was vacuum.

    You think TRS will join BJP. But many indications suggest that it will join Congress because that’s where the actual numbers are. BJP doesn’t have so many seats in Telangana.

    [Contd...]

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  151. @ Sravan

    So what you are saying is :

    1948 : T rebels sieze all lands

    1948 : Police make rebels give up those lands

    1948-56 : land reforms happen

    1970-72 : PV reinforces land reforms

    is it like above or i am getting confused again ?

    ReplyDelete
  152. @MIM:

    Telangana is more complicated than Gujarat. You have to understand that Modi did not come to power in vacuum. The ground work was going on for quite some time. The same is true of Karnataka. Excessive regionalism, ‘Kannada pride’ were going on for quite some time. Targeting of Christians and Muslims preceded advent of BJP. Those are missing in Telangana. No major riot took place since 1990. No Telangana person derided influence of Urdu, they gladly accept it. Instead they reject the ‘pure’ versions prescribed by Andhras.

    After the formation of Andhra Pradesh, Telangana people lost out because they were educated in Urdu – that included Hindus and Muslims. Andhras think Telangana is impure culture because we have been influenced by Nizam and Muslims. Telanganas are currently fighting that characterization, and we are saying loud and clear, that we are proud of our language and culture because it was influenced. We are proud to use Urdu words in our language without shame. So, how do you say that you are better off under Andhra rule?

    I welcome your thoughts. I am trying to see your point but I fail to understand it.

    Mr. Owaisi is a realist.

    I don’t think Mr Owaisi is taking the right step. He is not being realist. He is fighting for something that won’t happen. Realism is in embracing the change, not resisting it. According to me, Mr Owaisi is enacting another Nizam, resisting the change when it so imminent.

    I have total failth in the integrity of Mr. Owaisi compared to habitual lying politicians of Telangana.

    You may have that faith but you have to look beyond that faith now and see if the winds of change is something that this leader is actually riding or if he is resisting. Some of our politician’s have taken certain decisions that were not in the best interest of the people. And people had to pay the price. The leaders never pay for their mistakes.

    Why do you think BJP is so interested and vocal about Telangana? They see it as the only opportunity to displace TDP and become relevant in Hyderabad politics.

    BJP is supporter of all small states in India. They are also supporters of wide roads in India, I welcome those from BJP. Just because BJP supports wider roads, I will not shun them. You are being clouded in judgment just because BJP supports the current movement. Do you know that Naxalites also support the movement? And do you see Naxalites share anything with BJP? Do you know that many Muslims outfits also support Telangana agitation? Do you see them share anything with BJP?

    I find yours and Mr. Owaisi’s version for opposition not based in realistic trends on the ground. They are based in fear, but I find them unfounded fears. I am very critical of rise of Hindutva in general and I don’t see that happening in Telangana.

    You are welcome to continue your opposition on those fears. I will respect that and may be move on to other aspects of Telangana agitation – like better representation of lower castes in the current struggle. But I feel that you are bound to lose more by shunning this movement than to gain by resisting the change based on unfounded fears.

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  153. Sravan:
    That's right.

    That text you included is helpful. Democracy is not confined to elections alone. Protests and mass mobilizations are an integral part of a vibrant democracy.

    ReplyDelete
  154. @Prasad:

    So, r u after old city for 'Charity' or menial labour?

    Nice try. ;-) What do you want old city for?

    We think they are our people.

    But you don’t think we are your people. You deride our language, our culture. You call our language ‘bastardized’ by Urdu. You criticize us for enduring Nizam rule.

    While asking for joint capital you want only Cyberabad, you want us to take old city.

    So, what is your love for?

    Why sudden love AFTER forming JAC, bribing ALL sundray groups like MRPS, leftist orgs to join JAC while ignoring MIM?

    MIM didn’t want to join JAC. He kept silent for a while though there were overtures made to Owaisi. He spurned all attempts to bring him into JAC. Now, he decided to oppose Telangana formation.

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  155. //By the way, are u his lapdog... always saying yes blindly to what he says. //

    Why dont we think you are other persons lap dog? You always deny what we say?

    Check the other post about Husan Nationality? I did differ from his views, but in Telanganan issue I didnt get a chance to differ with him because my views are same with Sujai.

    You can not simply rule out other persons views because you didnt like him or agree with him.

    ReplyDelete
  156. //Indians CANNOT live as neighboring states with hatred for one another based on lies and figments of imagination.//

    The same way

    Indians CANNOT live as one state with discrimination by one another region based on false GOs, broken agreements, lies and figments of imagination.

    ReplyDelete
  157. //YOU CANNOT BE A VICTIM AND A JUDGE. Why dont u and ur hired lawyers go to court to challenge the govt? Govt is challenged several times when laws are not followed. Why dont u go to courts to prove ur case?//

    That is exactly happened for you before Presidential Order. After the SC decision you didnt like the court order and you started your Jai Andhra movement. Why didnt you obey the court order?

    ReplyDelete
  158. //verifying accusations and counter accusations in media and other public forums to prove them? //

    And what do we achieve by proving? Does anything happened with GO610? Or Girglaini Commission?

    ReplyDelete
  159. //So, r u after old city for 'Charity' or menial labour? Why sudden love AFTER forming JAC, bribing ALL sundray groups like MRPS, leftist orgs to join JAC while ignoring MIM?

    //

    So, r u after old city for 'Charity' or menial labour? Why Andhras showing sudden love for Muslims AFTER forming Telangana JAC, bribing MIM, while ignoring/kicking Jai Andhra agitators?

    ReplyDelete
  160. This is from a book that Sravan shared. The book is called, “The Demand for a Separate Telengana State in India”, authored by Hugh Gray, published in 1971, by University of California Press.

    “The majority of Telangana Muslims remained indifferent to the separation issue. Among the minority those who opposed the creation of a separate Telangana state argued that the Telangana Hindus were more communal minded than the Andhras. Others pointed out that the “Telangana Hindus are our Hindus and mulki, not non-mulki” and that the Muslims would be a more important minority in a smaller Telangana state, in which Urdu, as the language of Hyderabad city, would have to be recognized as a joint language with Telugu. Others argued that the Muslim and Hindu communities could be brought closer together if they fought side by side in a common cause. After much hesitation, Ittihad-ul-Muslimin declared itself neutral on the creation of a separate state, but a minority of secular-minded Muslims fully supported T.P.S.”

    The issue back then was not BJP, but the fears are the same – 'Telanganas are more communal than Andhras'.

    ReplyDelete
  161. //Nobody thinks that Old City's opinion is important.//

    THat is wrong, we do care about all the people in Telangana, but unfortunately some people are not with us and we can not do anything about it other than just presenting our case and request them to join us.

    When you guys started United Andhra, did you consult the 'Jai Andhra' leaders and convince them with your case? Or when a small section of your people support 'Jai Andhra' have you cared about there opinion?

    ReplyDelete
  162. @Sujai:
    "@Prasad:

    Do you support Potti Sriramulu’s struggle for Andhra State? Do you support Indian Independence movement against British?"

    I did not support his struggle for Andhra state as states were not organized on linguistic basis then and the govt had not yet decided if language would be the basis of the separation. However, if u think about it, lot of people including politicians were ok with whatever Nehru decided finally, despite some opposition.

    Of course, it is ridiculous if somehow u want to draw a parallel between British imperialism with domination of 'Andhra' people. Indian independence was based on NATIONALISM, and NOT regionalism. Regionalism, under the garb of democracy and discrimination, is what freedom fighters and nationalists feared that could weaken national unity and integrity.

    Rise of regional parties is a consequence of people playing into the hands of politicians, who claimed that, being regional, they can focus on regional aspirations in much better way than national parties. Their success led to emergence of parties based on sub-region that either utilized historical differences or underdevelopment of a narrower region to play politics and get power. Emergence of TRS and revival of T movement is result of this trend and this trend is manifested in different states in different forms.

    We are first and foremost in devising means to use our rights but ignore the consequences as we feel our demand is just and we dont care about the consequences ON THE NATION.

    "Sravan:

    Don’t answer any of Prasad’s questions till he answers these. He has been evading these questions for quite some time now."

    The command is given and the master should be obeyed. It is his blog and we all need to do as he says. Those are really tough qns that I tried to avoid. :))))

    ReplyDelete
  163. "Of course, it is ridiculous if somehow u want to draw a parallel between British imperialism with domination of 'Andhra' people. Indian independence was based on NATIONALISM, and NOT regionalism."

    in 1945:
    India is part of Great Briton along with many other regions (sri lanka, south africa ?). India fought against British for India's self rule only but not for others(srilanka for example), as per the Grate Briton political map, India is one of the region in there country. This way we can consider our Independence struggle as regional struggle.

    ReplyDelete
  164. Sujai:
    "You are fighting against a change that is inevitable. Nizam opposed the change that was inevitable – look how disastrous it was for the people of Telangana? "

    Yes, a direct threat of disaster waiting to happen if u dont come around. People have democratic right to disagree with ur decision and our paramilitary forces and Rapid Action Force will be ready to protect the interests of ALL sections of society in maintaining communal harmony and selective targeting on minorities of ALL regions. If ANY internal disturbance is created, it will not be tolerated.

    "So, you think that Andhra Rule is better than Telanganas ruling themselves?"

    As far as I know, all ur MLAs and MPs were ur people, who could bring 'center to its knees'. What RULE are u talking about? U get a PM and u brand him United AP supporter as if it is a crime and he is criminal.

    "On one side you say the current setup has not helped you and on the other side you don’t want to upset the current setup."

    He is wise enough to understand that thee situation is same for Muslims and poor people all over India. Merely changing the label of state AND change in the HEAD family does NOT change ground realities.

    ReplyDelete
  165. //U get a PM and u brand him United AP supporter as if it is a crime and he is criminal.

    //

    This is an example of a nonsense talk which is not at all related to current topic.

    None of us claimed that 100% of Telangana leaders/people are pro-telangana at any time. Even when pro-Telangana sentiment is on high in 1969, in following election TPS didn't win 100% of seats.

    No one has to brand PVN Rao for anything, he never supported Separate Telangana.

    Would you care to explain why PVN Rao has to stepdown from his CM of AP post without completing this term? Who is the reason?

    ReplyDelete
  166. @Ganga:
    "This way we can consider our Independence struggle as regional struggle."

    So, why did Gandhi, Patel, Gokhale, Nehru, Abul Kalam Azad, Bhagat Singh etc fight for Indian independence and self rule rather than for their states or regions?

    If Sujai etc also say our struggle was regional, I have nothing to talk about.

    ReplyDelete
  167. //I don’t think Mr Owaisi is taking the right step. He is not being realist. He is fighting for something that won’t happen. Realism is in embracing the change, not resisting it. According to me, Mr Owaisi is enacting another Nizam, resisting the change when it so imminent. //
    I beg to differ.Owaisis Salar and Akbaruddin are like Telanganites of 1950-KV Ranga Reddy and Chenna Reedy who led the Mulki agitation in 1952 and resisted the formation of Andhra Pradesh.Back then they resisted the change when it was imminent.Chenna Reddy became a hero of 'Jai Telangana' only because he advocated Telangana.If he was realistic in his views and presenting the case to SRC,so are the Owaisis today..

    ReplyDelete
  168. //"This way we can consider our Independence struggle as regional struggle."//
    When the folks in Telangana under AMS and Hyderabad State Congress and Andhra Jana Sangham they fought for liberation of Hyderabad ,the fought for joining India and not for Telangana or Hyderabad as separate state or country.

    ReplyDelete
  169. "When the folks in Telangana under AMS and Hyderabad State Congress and Andhra Jana Sangham they fought for liberation of Hyderabad ,the fought for joining India and not for Telangana or Hyderabad as separate state or country. "

    Who said it is not?

    ReplyDelete
  170. @Ganga:
    "This way we can consider our Independence struggle as regional struggle."
    Regional struggle is not indepedence struggle.If that is the case there are 20 'independence struggles' that will happen.

    ReplyDelete
  171. //
    When you guys started United Andhra, did you consult the 'Jai Andhra' leaders and convince them with your case? Or when a small section of your people support 'Jai Andhra' have you cared about there opinion?//

    Hey Old City is not a small section that can be skipped in consultations.They are real people with real concerns right in the heart of the City you are calling the future capital of Telangana.

    ReplyDelete
  172. @Prasad and Nayeem

    What is your solution to the status of the Muslims in old city or in Telangana??

    Do you suggest that they should live under similar circumstances and not accept any change??

    How is their stand beneficial for them in the united andhra setup,now??

    Why should they support United A.P?


    Give us 5 proper and not emotional reasons how the Muslims are going to benefit if they oppose Telangana.

    Why should they oppose Telangana??

    ReplyDelete
  173. //So what does it tell you? Why are you creating a bogey of BJP rule to oppose Telangana formation?//
    Right now BJP is not strong but if it will become strong since it is fighting for Telangana and is a major stakeholder.TRS or any party dare not question its importance because of the role is will play when the bill comes to Parliament for voting.

    ReplyDelete
  174. "Regional struggle is not indepedence struggle.If that is the case there are 20 'independence struggles' that will happen. "

    I will answer this behalf of Ganga.


    You need to know where to draw a line in comparison.

    Items: Cow Milk and Buffallo Milk
    You say: Both are different.
    I Say: Both are almost similar.

    When some one says Buffallo milk and Cow milk are almost same, that means in many characteristics both are same but not 100% same.

    ReplyDelete
  175. Sravan:
    "More than what you think Telangana movement is, I think you have more hatred against telangana poor and Muslims. You seem to have a very bad opinion on Muslims of Hyderabad."

    Really, why is it so? I am not blaming them for ANYTHING. I am pretty clear that poverty, underdevelopment and lack of governance is in all regions, communities and states. NREGA and other centrally sponsored schemes too focus on helping poor people nationwide. It is against misplaced blame, misinformation against discrimination that I am against.

    "We do not carry that hatred towards andhra or any body. We simply are trying to get telangana from the marginalization it is undergoing in the state of AP."

    True... u accuse them of stealing jobs, resources, insulting language and culture... and now, u say u dont hate Andhra. United AP supporters cannot understand this love.

    "You should learn to distinguish between hatred, difference of opinions and aspirations."

    Yes, u will do anything and say anything to get T state but u dont have any ill will towards other regions and center.

    "Telangana movement is against the agreements and promises that were putforth to allow formation of AP but ultimately broken."

    Yes, point taken but u were silent all these years and never cared to ask ur leaders to solve problemsor believed whatever they told u. Lets enforce the agreements or devise new ones to solve people problems than telling ur future generations: u r poor and jobless because those regions took away all ur jobs and resources. This is NOT the India we want.

    ReplyDelete
  176. @ Dyapa:
    "Do you suggest that they should live under similar circumstances and not accept any change??

    How is their stand beneficial for them in the united andhra setup,now??

    Why should they support United A.P?"

    The problems of Muslims in Hyd, Telangana, Andhra, rayalaseema are same as problems in UP, Bombay and elsewhere in India. It is lack of education and opportunities for social mobility. It has nothing to do with (non)formation of Telangana. If JUST offering them reservation is ur solution, which is unconstitutional now, why is the plight of SCsSTs did not improve much? I am not convinced that their life will be different in a new state label with same leaders and same political system and increased risk of attacks because of historical bitterness.


    "Give us 5 proper and not emotional reasons how the Muslims are going to benefit if they oppose Telangana."

    GHMC elections have resulted in MIM getting more control over GHMC. 13th Finance commission allotted increased funding for local govts such as GHMC and more will be given later. MIM and GHMC have an opportunity to solve problems in old city. As u can see, this has nothing to do with T state.

    Telangana state will NOT be able to get ANY extra funding or resources for 'upliftment of muslims' as u guys will be busy filing the pockets of TRS families, projects in some regions etc. What 5 reasons do u have, other than, they were part of Hyd state during Nizam rule, that they shud support T state?

    U shud also remember that prior to 1800, there was NO telangana region or province. So, it is not like 2000 year history does not matter but what happened during 200 years (Nizam rule) determines my identity, thats NOT correct interpretation.

    "Why should they oppose Telangana??"

    Why support it, based on lies and misinformation u dish out JUST TO GET THE STATE, when it does NOT solve any of their problems and increases risk of isolation?

    ReplyDelete
  177. //Hey Old City is not a small section that can be skipped in consultations.They are real people with real concerns right in the heart of the City you are calling the future capital of Telangana. //

    A guy in HYD doesn't count more than a guy from Adilabad.

    ReplyDelete
  178. //Right now BJP is not strong but if it will become strong since it is fighting for Telangana and is a major stakeholder.//

    As per your logic, we can too say that

    Right now MIM is not strong but if it will become strong since it is fighting for United Andhra and is a major stakeholder.

    Above both statements doesn't make any sense. But can be used for a baseless argument. :)

    ReplyDelete
  179. //True... u accuse them of stealing jobs, //

    You are wrong, we are not accusing any one, we are just expressing what was told in GO610 and Girglainin Commission report.

    ReplyDelete
  180. //Yes, point taken but u were silent all these years and never cared to ask ur leaders to solve problemsor believed whatever they told u.//

    When you accept that you broke agreements and law, with what face you are asking that we should ask now?

    As per the Indian constitution, if you steal some thing and you caught after 20years, you still have to go prison. It is foolish to ask Judge that why you didn't punish for past 20years.

    ReplyDelete
  181. //Lets enforce the agreements or devise new ones to solve people problems//

    Didn't we tried this almost three times before and failed?(just because of you)

    Don't you feel ashamed to ask us to trust you again?

    ReplyDelete
  182. "Give us 5 proper and not emotional reasons how the Muslims are going to benefit if they oppose Telangana."

    GHMC elections have resulted in MIM getting more control over GHMC. 13th Finance commission allotted increased funding for local govts such as GHMC and more will be given later. MIM and GHMC have an opportunity to solve problems in old city. As u can see, this has nothing to do with T state.


    hahahehhh.... question is about Muslims, the answer is about old city.

    ReplyDelete
  183. //Right now MIM is not strong but if it will become strong since it is fighting for United Andhra and is a major stakeholder.//
    Hey MIM will definitely emerge stronger and have more voice in a house of 119.That's not the point.Its in the wider interest of the community that Telangana is opposed by Muslim leaders and people.The animosity of Telangana leaders towards minorities is very well know.There would not be a motivation of the part of Telangana govt to uplift them. BJP will definitely become stronger it unsettles the peace and harmony.

    ReplyDelete
  184. //Why support it, based on lies and misinformation u dish out JUST TO GET THE STATE, when it does NOT solve any of their problems and increases risk of isolation? //

    If I remember correctly you did accepted that you broke the agreements, and you claim again that we spread lies. I think you need a good night sleep. :)

    ReplyDelete
  185. //A guy in HYD doesn't count more than a guy from Adilabad.//
    Remember the Vatoli incident? Where did it happen. There is a compulsion and coercion on Muslims in Telangana districts to join the movement.

    ReplyDelete
  186. //BJP will definitely become stronger it unsettles the peace and harmony.
    //

    Just like you, some one in other countries(I guess CIA in America) in 1960s told there President that India will be divided into smaller pieces soon. And there prediction was wrong.

    There is no logic how BJP will became strong? Unless you give me a strong logic, you should not expect any answer from me, Sujai already explained the BJP status in the states which was carved out by BJP.

    ReplyDelete
  187. //Remember the Vatoli incident? //

    I don't ..

    ReplyDelete
  188. //Sujai already explained the BJP status in the states which was carved out by BJP.//
    Hey who is Sujai ? How does he know?
    Does he have a crystal ball to say that? My dear friend BJP would not raise their little finger unless there is some benefit for them.Why should they support Telangana if there is no likelihood of consolidation.Apply some thought.

    ReplyDelete
  189. //Remember the Vatoli incident? //
    I don't..

    What can I say ? You need to do more research when you are fighting for a state....

    ReplyDelete
  190. //Hey who is Sujai ? How does he know?
    Does he have a crystal ball to say that? My dear friend BJP would not raise their little finger unless there is some benefit for them.Why should they support Telangana if there is no likelihood of consolidation.Apply some thought.

    //

    If I change few words in above sentence, it makes lots of sense.


    Hey who is MIM ? How does he know?
    Does he have a crystal ball to say that BJP will rule Telangana? My dear friend MIM would not raise their little finger towards United AP unless there is some benefit for them(bribe?). Why should they support United AP when every one else supporting Pro-Telangana.Apply some thought.

    ReplyDelete
  191. //What can I say ? You need to do more research when you are fighting for a state.... //

    Really? looks like you too don't know about it much.

    You asked me whether I know it or not. If you say why you are asking, then I might have a better answer for you.

    Any information is one click away my friend, just don't jump with you guns thinking opposite one doesn't have any weapon.

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  192. //Does he have a crystal ball to say that BJP will rule Telangana? My dear friend MIM would not raise their little finger towards United AP unless there is some benefit for them(bribe?). Why should they support United AP when every one else supporting Pro-Telangana.Apply some thought.//
    That's fine.If there is a benefit for MIM there is a benefit for community.Owaisi is the leader and MIM protects its community and there by its interests.

    ReplyDelete
  193. Green_Star:
    "If I remember correctly you did accepted that you broke the agreements, and you claim again that we spread lies. I think you need a good night sleep. :)"

    Dude.. I said 'Point taken' which means... I hear ur concern and THIS DOES NOT MEAN WHAT U ACCUSE IS CORRECT. U fail to understand basic english.

    "You are wrong, we are not accusing any one, we are just expressing what was told in GO610 and Girglainin Commission report.

    As per the Indian constitution, if you steal some thing and you caught after 20years, you still have to go prison. It is foolish to ask Judge that why you didn't punish for past 20years."

    Do I see a contradiction here... U say u dont accuse us of anything... then u talk about NOT TRUSTING, STEALING. This forum and all discussions in Sujai blog can find 100s of instances of people shouting 'U stole jobs, resources, self-respect everything' and now u say, we dont accuse u of anything. What a pathetic contradiction.

    ReplyDelete
  194. //Really? looks like you too don't know about it much.

    You asked me whether I know it or not. If you say why you are asking, then I might have a better answer for you.

    Any information is one click away my friend, just don't jump with you guns thinking opposite one doesn't have any weapon.//
    Hey information is a google search away.Its as simple as that.You could do it yourself.I thought you might know about the Vatoli Incident of 2008 if not you can find out and then comment upon it.Just because you talked about Adilabad,I've asked you.

    ReplyDelete
  195. Good you said that, Thank you. The same way ...

    If there is a benefit for BJP there is a benefit for community(if there is any community for BJP!!).

    ReplyDelete
  196. "If there is a benefit for BJP there is a benefit for community(if there is any community for BJP!!).//
    Bingo!Yes you have taken 193 posts to understand what we are trying to say.
    If BJP is a benefit for community that is a bane for Muslims.That's the concern beseting the minorities.We don't want a Vatoli incident in Telangana anywhere...

    ReplyDelete
  197. //Just because you talked about Adilabad,I've asked you. //

    Still I didn't get your point.

    ReplyDelete
  198. //Dude.. I said 'Point taken' which means... I hear ur concern and THIS DOES NOT MEAN WHAT U ACCUSE IS CORRECT. U fail to understand basic english.//

    Capital letters and pointing my english command etc are showing your anger. Are you feeling you are losing the argument?

    //Do I see a contradiction here... U say u dont accuse us of anything... then u talk about NOT TRUSTING, STEALING. This forum and all discussions in Sujai blog can find 100s of instances of people shouting 'U stole jobs, resources, self-respect everything' and now u say, we dont accuse u of anything. What a pathetic contradiction. //

    And here we go .. this proves your lack of understanding simple english.

    We are not just accusing, we are saying we are accusing with proofs. GO610, Girglaini report did proved that you are thieves. You caught stealing funds by central audit. And you masked your eyes so that you don't have to see these facts.

    ReplyDelete
  199. //We don't want a Vatoli incident in Telangana anywhere... //

    Still I don't see any relation between HYD muslims and Vatoli incident.

    Looks like you want to create a fruit mixture of apple and orange.

    ReplyDelete
  200. //Bingo!Yes you have taken 193 posts to understand what we are trying to say.//

    But still you didn't understand what we are saying. :)

    ReplyDelete

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