Thursday, August 04, 2011

Telangana 85: Say NO to Telangana Talli

In our euphoria to restore our history and our identity we have been discarding everything that was imposed onto us in Andhra Pradesh by the Andhras.  One such idol we discard is the icon of Telugu Talli, an unmistakably Hindu lady with jewels and bhindi carrying Hindu symbol of devotion in one hand.  She looks no different from contemporary images of a Hindu goddess.  Telanganas replaced Telugu Talli with Telangana Talli, who doesn’t look any different from Telugu Talli except some small variations.  Once again she is distinctly Hindu lady.  Any casual observer will pass her for a Hindu goddess.  

Continuing the same exercise of discarding Seemandhra symbols, Telangana leaders are ready to discard the official state song Maa Telugu Talliki, which is a devotional song sung in most official programs, celebrations, government offices, schools, across the state.   The argument from Telanganas is the same – it is an imposition of Andhras onto Telanganas.

While we are ready to challenge the imposition of Seemandhra domination in icons, symbols and songs, we need to ask some hard questions.  When trying to correct history, shall we use the opportunity to correct it the right way, or shall we replace one imposition with another?  This is a serious question that will act as a litmus test to everything that is going to happen once the new state of Telangana is formed.  Will a new class of Telanganas usurpers emerge to occupy the dominating positions vacated by Seemandhras to pounce upon rest of Telangana, the way Seemandhras occupied the positions vacated by Nizam’s government?  Will we correct ourselves not to become like Seemandhras or is this movement only to topple the erstwhile masters to replace them with our own, so that nothing changes for the common man?

The statue of Telugu Talli and the song of Maa Telugu Talliki, in addition to being an imposition of Andhras onto Telanganas, was also an imposition of Hindus onto other religions, like Muslims and Christians.  There is no reference or allusion to the symbols and leaders of Muslims who comprise a huge portion of Telangana population.   The references in this song to Amaravathi, Tyagayya, Rudramma, Thimmarasu, Krishnarayala, do not include contributions of Muslims of Andhra Pradesh.  The Telugu Talli idol is distinctly Hindu, and Maa Telugu Talliki is a Hindu devotional song, which has no references to a Muslim icon, poet, or king.   Like the song Vande Mataram, which apotheosizes India as a Hindu goddess, the song Maa Telugu Talliki apotheosizes Telugu region as a Hindu goddess.  The way Muslims find problem singing Vande Mataram, they find the same problem in singing Maa Telugu Talliki.  While we Telanganas tend to believe that it is an imposition of Seemandhras, what stops Muslims from thinking it is an imposition of Hindus?

Since we are ready to correct the mistakes of the past and overthrow such impositions, should we not discard all such images and songs, instead of replacing one imposition with another? 

India is a secular country and all images and symbols of religion should be disavowed by the state administration.   And yet, we continue to equate India with Hinduism without any qualms and expect the minority religions to tow the diktats of the majority.  The struggle for Telangana is the struggle of one such minority which rejects the overwhelming domination of a majority that imposed all its symbols, its dialects, its ideas of what is right and what is wrong, their festivals, their histories, and their heroes.  How can we then justify the imposition of the majority religion’s symbols and icons onto a minority religion in the same struggle?

It will be a travesty of a genuine people’s movement if we were to continue this path and embrace Telangana Talli as our icon and if we were to replace Maa Telugu Talliki with another Hindu devotional song. 

We should discontinue the practice of erecting Telangana Talli statues right away and remove the Telangana Talli statues that we have already installed before it is too late, and stop introducing new songs which have religious fervor or intonations.  That will be dream come true for justified cause of Telangana, its genuine people’s movement, its rightful place in the dominion of India, embracing the Indian Constitution, its ideals and principles which we so strongly advocate in our struggles.  Otherwise, it will be another failed movement where one master will be replaced by another. 


  1. Sujai, symbols are an important part of a movement. The idea of a "language mother" is archaic as most people use land or region or culture to rally people (e.g. Bharat mata, das Vaterland).

    Even though I am an atheist, I accept cultural symbols like batkamma, bonalu etc. I also use language like "khuda haafiz". This does not imply adherance to a religion but an acknowledgment of culture.

    True Telangana talli looks like a Hindu god. However the proposed state song (Jayajayahe Telangana including a reference to Golconda), the proposed state symbol (Charminar) and the planned bi-lingual state should reinforce a secular image, though not a non-religious one.

  2. Jai:

    symbols are an important part of a movement.

    I do understand and promote such symbols to be used in the movement which could continue to be used after formation of Telangana. My objection is to adopting symbols that are deeply religious – especially when it represents only one religion.

  3. @jai and sujai

    telugu thalli-personification of telugu language

    telangana thalli-personification of telangana REGION and NOT tg slang

    how could shri shri shri harish rao gaaru be so immature to compare both of them???

    by the way, dasaradhi krishnamacharyulu once said that nizam used to fine people who spoke in telugu instead of urdu.
    alantidi ipudu, adhe telugu thalliuni dooshistunnaru.

    what a pity

  4. kcr once said that someone in 1930's wrote a poem titled "andhra matha annapurna namasthe"

    had u been forced to sing that song, ur relucatnce would have been understandablw.

    now what on earth diod telugu thalli do????
    meeru matladedhi telugu kaada?

  5. @nenusaitham:

    Telangana is a "panchaveni sangam" of Telugu, Urdu, Marathi, Kannada & Hindi. We reject language as the basis of state formation.

    The so called "Telugu talli" represents andhra hegemony in the form of unity. The concept was floated by TDP which came to power on the so called Telugu self respect plank.

    "by the way, dasaradhi krishnamacharyulu once said that nizam used to fine people who spoke in telugu instead of urdu"

    This is a baseless propaganda. Dasaradhi wrote both in Telugu & Urdu.

    1. Even C.Narayana Reddy wrote and spoke both Telugu and Urdu but he had said on several occasions that Telugu was not allowed during Nizam rule. Where was your so called "panchaveni sangam" when Telugu was not allowed prior to 1950s and you were forced to study in Urdu. Who really cares if you believe in Telugu Thalli or not. Why does Telangana Thalli have Bathukamma in her hand when in truth Bathukamma was a festival of some BC castes which did not allowed dalits to participate in it. There are several articles about it and even videos where dalits and other castes compalined. Why did Doras oppose the festival during Nizams times and why do they make use of it now. Bathukamma is just used as a media to attract people.

    2. Dear Above Anonymous,

      every one left home, you are very late. You are just asking the walls and chairs. Go home, sleep tight.

  6. Jai,
    If Telangana really is the "panchaveni sangam" of Telugu, Urdu, Marathi, Kannada & Hindi
    Why don't you preach this to the Kannadigas, Marathis and ask them to become part of the would be Telangana state?

    Lets see how many of them would show their affinity to Telangana.
    The defunct Hyderabad state (Not Telangana state) was an amalgam of the above stated languages, after states reorg, people are happy with their current setup (except T region people).
    Kannadigas are very happy with Karnataka, as do Marathis with Maharashtra.They have no affinity or any remote relationship to Telangana. The current Telangana movement is only a movement of the disgruntled "Telugu's" belonging to a certain geographical region.

    Also ask your parents as to how many times they participated in elections and how many times they voted for TDP?
    TDP did certainly come on Telugu unity plank and the people of Telangana voted with their feet and elected it to power (probably in an inebriated state ??).

  7. If not because of Nizam, why was Telangana backward prior to 1950s? Who are Indian muslims and Christians? Did they all migrate from Afghanistan or Iran or middle east? No, they have been forcibly converted. The Hindu religion is the identity behind our history of civilization and the basis of a country called 'India'. Those who say India was born in 1947 ignore unifying cause behind India, a land of varied cultures and languages. Those who ignore history and abandon self-respect for 'political correctness' and 'expediency' will be left with no culture and identity.

    Nizam impoverished the region, imposed Urdu and had army that raped Hindu women. What is the history during Nizam rule that you are proud of? We do not force Muslims or others to follow Hindu songs, traditions etc but that does not mean we should abandon our identity. 'Secular' europe is abandoning multiculturalism, USA is Judeo-christian nation, Israel is Jewish and there is no shame in saying or accepting India is a Hindu nation. Other faiths can live and practice and laws of the country will not be biased against them.

  8. As much as I want a Telangana State, I am affraid of the psedo-seculars and islamists that dominate this region. Given a choice, I think seperate autonomous region with seperate budget and water share, almost like a state within a state kind of arrangement is best for Telangana. BTW, I am originally from Karimnagar.

  9. @Reddy:

    I am not referring to the Marathwada Marathis or HK Kannadigas but to those who live in Telangana. There was no migration from Telangana to either of these states after 1956.

    Marathis, Kannadigas & other linguistic minorities are fully supporting Telangana movement.

    You may not be aware but there is currently a movement in HK for inclusion in 371D. You must have heard of the Vidarbha movement.

    TDP, its megalomaniac founder and current scheming leadership may have fooled Telangana people for some time but no longer.

  10. This "panchaveni sangam" that Jai keeps talking of is just a lie. If that was the case why did you have maharashtrian and kannidga movements that wanted their respective linguistic regions (the other districts) included in their states and MORE IMPORTANTLY why didn't the so called Telugu Telanganites not fight and stop it on the ground of the concept of "panchaveni sangam".

    This is just a set of lies. And as a Hindi speaking within the "panchaveni sangam" I can say that conclusively. In fact the telugu telanganites have actively sidelined the others of the so called "panchaveni sangam"

  11. Aravind:

    The Hindu religion is the identity behind our history of civilization and the basis of a country called 'India'.

    If that is the reason, why is Kashmir Valley, Ladakh, Mizoram, Nagaland, Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim is with India?

  12. In all these years, I have seen only one non-Telugu Hyderabad guy oppose Telangana. He ignores the stand of Jadhav, Saxena, Nigam, Melkote, Ekbote etc. but does not reveal his "plans" for starting a "udyamam" for a "new Pondicherry".

  13. Fantastic Jai,

    At least the united guys are saying that they are "telugu" people and wanted to stay united.

    What happened to you people when our beloved old Hyderabad state was being broken. Did any of you raise a voice. And what happened when the other language people were sidelined and discriminated against by Telugu telanganites.

    Where were you jai with all your sangamam argument. Now you want to speak in double tongues.

    And as far as agitations are concerned you need a lot of jobless people to do that. You think there are many among the ones you choose to attack?

  14. Sera:

    And as far as agitations are concerned you need a lot of jobless people to do that. You think there are many among the ones you choose to attack?

    That's speaks very low about you and your understanding of the history. Agitations involve all kinds of people. Do you really think only the jobless people carry out agitations?

    Indians carried out agitations to win freedom from British. After India attained Independence, many people participated in many agitations. There was a time many eminent personalities took to streets to fight Emergency imposed by Indira Gandhi. Recently, many people participated in fasts and rallies across India in support of Anna Hazare.

    I asked you earlier not to show up on this blog, but you shamelessly show up again and again. That speaks volumes about you and the kind of people we are up against in this Telangana Movement.

  15. i once read an article that a guy from nalgonda and a girl from cuddapah district maried each other.
    not a great deal i suppose.but, the thing here is that both of them are visually challenged and fell in love just by hearing each other's voices.
    this is what i call as "manavathvam" which is beyond caste,religion, region, etc
    wish the hate monger's on both sides have atleast some sort of "gnyanodayam"

  16. @Sujai:
    "If that is the reason, why is Kashmir Valley, Ladakh, Mizoram, Nagaland, Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim is with India?"

    Dude... u do not understand the concept of 'Bharathvarsha' that was the basis and identity behind current Indian nation. India does not mean all states have to be Hindu majority but the whole basis on which India emerged as a nation-state is owing to Hindu tradition, culture and identity. This is despite the fact that northeastern states have steadily been converted by rich evangelical groups and churches, under the guise of charity. To think all Christians and Muslims are descendants of Mughals, Persians, Syrian Christians or Portuguese is perversion of history and destruction of Hindu identity.

    The idea of Akhand Bharath includes Pakistan, Bangladesh and South east Asian nations where Buddhism spread.

  17. Yup Sujai,

    That needs a correction. Instead of typing out "as far THIS agitation is concerned" I typed the plural for which I stand corrected.

    I asked you earlier not to show up on this blog, but you shamelessly show up again and again. That speaks volumes about you and the kind of people we are up against in this Telangana Movement.

    That's like saying even you were told repeatedly and even today in the parliament that a consensus needs to be reached but you shamelessly (may I add un-democratically) see no need for it. And there are these silly arguments of "panchaveni sangamam" which is utter bullshit and we see it as a tool/concept to further marginalize us - and specially in Hyderabad.

    If you cannot live with your own brothers (for all the speeches you give about as separating like brothers) and spew such venom on them you think we Hindis or Marathis or Kannadigas should trust you?

    Can you explain that?

  18. If that is the reason, why is Kashmir Valley, Ladakh, Mizoram, Nagaland, Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim is with India?

    Common Sujai! I am sure you know origin of Patanjali Maharshi. Today NE has more similarities with Far East Asia. But there were Hindu Kingdoms around 1000 AD.
    You may want to read History of India by Romilla Thapar.

  19. If you cannot live with your own brothers (for all the speeches you give about as separating like brothers) and spew such venom on them you think we Hindis or Marathis or Kannadigas should trust you?


    it is useless asking such questions.
    I asked my domestic help the same question. "If he you throw us out, how a third party comes here?". His reply was simple "it will not have impact on relations with others".

  20. @Anonymous commenter with a quote from his anonymous "domestic help"

    You will notice the "great Hindi speaking new Pondicherry crusader" does not counter the names I cite. Nor does he come up with the name of a single opinion leader supporting his "GHMC as seperate entity" cause.

    Why only andhras (not everyone; only some, mostly those who have moved recently) have problems integrating in Telangana? The answers to this lies within them, not us.

    Marwaris, Kannadigas etc. want to prosper together, not dominate. They participate in and contribute to the culture, not insist on imposing their culture. They celebrate अपना वतन, not మన (in fact, మా) ఆంద్రప్రదేశ్

  21. @nenusaitham:

    Good comment. Perhaps you should include scare mongerers apart from the "hate monger's".

    I know dozens of cases of "inter state/region" marriages both in my relatives and friends. I find the Andhra origin spouses (especially the women) most vocal in supporting Telangana.

  22. sera you rock...i visit this blog 50-50 to read your comments...

  23. I find the Andhra origin spouses (especially the women) most vocal in supporting Telangana.

    My god Jai, how true you are. People are forced to either keep silent or support this movement and this includes even media channels for the fear of attacks of TG rowdigitators,

    And you expect the andhra spouses to be silent or anti-TG movement. They will get beaten to pulp by their husbands if they speak otherwise.

    How ironic that you made this comment where atrocities "against women by men" have married with "atrocities against peace loving people" by KCR and his extortionists.

    And thanks hummingboy for the compliment. I will write at least for you. We need to fight this cancer spreading across the nation. Look at Sushma Swaraj yesterday who spoke like a gully leader rather than as the leader of the opposition. She needs to be removed by BJP and made head of some Nizambad or Warangal district.

  24. Mr. Sera:

    So far I avoided responding to you because of your crass behavior in stalking this site against the wishes of the blogger. But I am forced to do so as you surpass yourself when you accuse my relatives and friends of being wife beaters.

    You, sir, need to learn netiquette. जो आदमी तमीज नहीं जानता वोह ह्य्देराबादी नहीं होसकता.

    Good bye & good riddance!

  25. जो आदमी तमीज नहीं जानता वोह ह्य्देराबादी नहीं होसकता.---

    हांजी बिलकुल सहीं!
    हैदरबादी तमीज वाले हैं!
    इसलिए बाहार्वालोंकी मूर्तियाँ भी अपनाया!
    मगर कुछ लोग हैं जो नामोंसे भी नफरत करते हैं!

  26. BTW, I am originally from Karimnagar.

    Yes, I believe you...

    Can you enlighten me how your proposal is different from the separate state? How your idea will make things better than the situations in separate state?

  27. Do you really think only the jobless people carry out agitations?

    If that is true, then he should admit that our Gandhi is the biggest jobless guy in whole world. Lol.... by the way Potti Sree Ramulu is biggest jobless guy in the country, who single handedly initiated the so many other states breakup.

  28. If you cannot live with your own brothers

    You should have asked this question to your grand grand fathers who liked to go separate from Madras.

    1. our grand grand fathers separated from Tamilians not from Telugu speaking people!!! at that time despite being majority Telugu speaking people in Madras presidency and Nizams Telangana both ware subjected to discrimination thus Leaders of both regions wanted a separate identity for Telugu speaking people!!! today you may apply all sorts of bad intentions to the leaders at that time but reviewing how they lived and how they died will prove how selfless they are and how good their intentions are!!!

  29. And thanks hummingboy for the compliment.

    I smell అపరిచితుడు here. any one else ...?

  30. At least the united guys are saying that they are "telugu" people and wanted to stay united.

    That is really joke, actually what united guys want is 'Telangana should not get Hyderabad', here are there priorities

    1. United Guys want Hyderabad, they every one agrees then they can help to form Telangana state without Hyderabad.

    2. Or they want United State so that they continue milking Hyderabad and Telangana as bonus.

  31. Sera,

    you made my day ;)..I used to enjoy your debates with Medam ji and greenstar :)

    i think BJP's telangana stand is just a political stunt...they see their future in Telangana than in Andhra hence they support next elections if Andhras happen to send few MP's then the stand will change.


    I saw a clip in you tube about a groom from nallagonda insisting his andhra bride to say Jai Telangana threatening he will not marry her if she don't ...obviously she says Jai Telangana as she would care more of her marriage than region.

  32. To Arvind and Anonymous,

    I am not sure of sujai's argument on one talli vs another talli but I believe the whole concept of treating nation as a mother/father/god /godess is not proper and ridiculous, let alone treating a region as talli(be it telangana, andhra, dravida nation)

    Regarding north east and historc Indian nation, not all territories were considered part of 'akhand hindu bharat',If anything they are treated as 'melecchas' in hinudism,Bhagavat gita explcitly states us to be away from these 'melecchas'.even in our epics the farthest eastern point mentioned is lauhitya(Arunachal ),which was an occupied kingdom and not part of 'bharat-varsha'

    The Nagas,Mizos,and other tibeto-burmese tribes were never considered to be part of 'sanatan -dharmic' tradition.

    Do we have a state by state analysis of which parts of the seven north east states and tribes were part of 'hindu-india',which emperors ruled all theese states?

    The argument that many south-east asian contries were also hindus hence part of 'Hindu Akhand bharat' does not apply.Hindusim spread to south east asia the same way as Islam spread to India,Some by conquest some by trade,but these kingdoms were never considered to be part of 'bharat khand' ,They were friendly kingdoms and that is all.

    Many Islamists make the similar argument that India was once part of Islamic 'ummah' by the same logic you gave for 'akhand bharat'

    Just because some people were occupied or embraced Hindusim does not mean they are considered part of the country.

    Another good example is andaman islands,by what logic do we claim that the tribes of these regions are Indian?

    Many of these regions like north east and andaman were added by british to their 'Indian' kingdom purely for administration purposes.

    How many Hindus can recognise all the tribes of north-east,how many can even tell apart a north-eastern person from a chinese person?

    Going by vedic slokas the entire world can be considered Hindu,beacuse it was bramha who created the entire world right? who created the all the other non-Indians,some other god?

  33. sanatani,

    first let me narrate a funny story of Moulvi Nasruddin

    Once Nasruddin lost his donkey and could not find it. Out of desperation he says that was a bad donkey and he would sell it for one coin even if he found it. But one day he finds the donkey. Now he has to keep his word of selling it for one coin. He takes it to market for selling. He tells buyers donkey is one coin only but I would sell it along with my cat. And price of cat is 1000 coins.

    you may be correct about NE states. To my knowledge history of these states is a but obscure. For that matter even Nepal never identifies itself with Bharata varsha.

    The blog owner is very intelligent. He clubs a doubtful case with other cases and projects as if all under same category like selling cat and donkey.
    Any reader with counter argument is bound to make a mistake of rejecting all in-toto. Now unwitting supporters like you surface and counter others' arguments.
    Now where we are? We have to accept Kashmir also not part of India. Hence India seen as OCCUPIER. Right?

    Coming back to your point 'akhand bharath' view of some group might be flawed and nothing INDIAN about NE states. But did they ever question their association with India? Did they want to separate from India?

    Finally why should anybody discuss them in context of T agitation?

  34. These symbols of unity first of all are used to manufacture opinion/consensus and then used as mastheads of dominance. So I won't be surprised if Telangana Talli will only replace Telugu talli in the new state of Telangana.

  35. Telengana Talli (second picture) looks like Priyanka Chopra donning a goddess outfit.
    Perhaps the Telenganaites could have her in an ad endorsing Telengana and broadcast it on all channels. Maybe then there will be mass support for Telengana and it will become reality!

  36. jai telangana . and jai telangana thalli. we make our telangana state with hydrabad capital. no body can stop this. jai telangana


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