Monday, December 31, 2007

Benazir II

I want to address some of the objections raised in my previous article, Benazir Bhutto, Victim of Home Grown Terror!

One commenter writes:

You seem to have a custom-made lens on your eyes. Anything happens anywhere in the universe you do not forget to see a lesson for "hindus" through your lens. One makkhi kills some macchhar and you would not forget to mention a lesson for how hindus could learn from the incident.

Yes, I would like to see if we can learn from those incidents because they are very relevant to our future. For far too long, we have stopped learning from examples already set in history. Our myopia never allowed us to think far into future to know how our actions would affect us. And we have not read our histories to learn from them but only to pass the next exam. We chose to ignore episodes from our contemporary history that sound distasteful to us (1984 riots, Kashmir struggle, IPKF involvement, etc). We have created an image for ourselves that we are so superior that all our actions, including those which are seeped in hatred, will entail the best results.

These commenters love it when I criticize Pakistan and their policies, because they see it as criticism of ‘Islamic’ nation, which according to them rightly deserves criticism. However, they disagree with my final paragraph where I talk about ‘Lessons for India’. They detest such lessons for them because they don’t like to be equated with ‘Islamic terrorism and extremism’.

So, to rubbish my ‘Lessons’, they propose the following:

There is nothing called Hindu terrorism.

Just like Modi, who keeps repeating that there is no such a thing called Hindu terrorists, this guy wants to rule out the possibility of Hindu terrorism FOREVER. Most Hindus have started to develop a theory that Hinduism, by its innate nature, does not create terrorists. Even if Hindus do get involved in such ‘terror’ activities, it’s only a ‘natural reaction’ to fight ‘Islamic terrorism’ engulfing them. [Or they do not brandish their religion while killing people (ex. LTTE).]

It’s very easy to argue that every act of terrorism on this planet is a ‘natural reaction’ to an action that preceded it, and thus going back all the way, we can only blame Adam and Eve for all terrorist activities. This way the present generations can shirk all accountability

All terrorism (Hindu, Muslim, Casteists / Reservationists or Blog insinuationists) in all its forms should be condemned EQUALLY.

This guy wants me to concede that people who support reservations in India are also terrorists. And those who write blogs, the way I do, are also terrorists. They want me to equate myself with Islamic and Hindu terrorism that is engulfing India now.

And to sound just and fair, they throw in the word – ‘EQUALLY’. So, if you put 20 Hindu arsonists in jail for certain action, you should also put 20 Muslims, 20 reservations supporters, and 20 bloggers in jail to ensure ‘EQUALITY’.

The basis for a lot of your articles here is hatred (or your so called "concern") for hindus and right-wing (whatever that is).

If educated Indians are good at something, I began to believe, it is sophistry. Playing with words! In another discussion, one author argues that fighting ‘hatred’ is morally equivalent to ‘hatred’ itself and therefore should be equally repudiated since fighting ‘hatred’ involves ‘hating hatred’.

Say, an observer in USA writes: ‘If George Bush invades Iraq, tens of thousands of innocents will die’. Is that statement a ‘threat’ or a ‘word of caution’? The commenters here take my ‘words of caution’ for ‘words of threat’ and then come to a conclusion that it will lead to ‘terrorism’.

I get to hear such convoluted logic all the time. Here, the commenter equates my ‘concern’ with ‘hatred’ and then equates ‘hatred’ to ‘terrorism’ to get the final result- this blog will eventually lead to ‘terrorism’. What gets missed in the whole scheme is that the very basis of this blog is fight terrorism and all forms of violence by using dialog, discussion, and bold actions, instead of resorting to propping up one terrorist organization to fight another.

The core idea of these commenters is to obfuscate, confuse, use specious logic to dismiss my arguments. Lessons will never get learned that way.

Related Posts: Benazir Bhutto, Victim of Home Grown Terror!, Lessons from Pakistan


18 comments:

  1. Sujai,

    You can give "quick" answers to following questiions to find whether Hindu Terrorism exist.

    1) Do you think any Hindu in this country is roaming with AK47 to protect his "Identity".
    2) Do you think any Hindu is preparing himself as next suicide bomber
    3) Do you think any Hindu is taking private army training to protect his identity.

    If you give immediate genuine answers to above questions you will have told "NO" vehemently. Replace word 'Hindu' and answer it.

    If you don't give immediate answers then you will confuse with street riots where Hindus are involved. Terrorism of LTTE/Riots of Naxals are not happening to protect Hindu identity. I agree with your earlier that reservation and terrorism are two different subjects and should not be mixed.

    Dig lessons for Hindus/Indians in all subjects like makhi killing macchhar, baby slapping another baby and teach them. Hindus love to learn more. But don't give undue weightage for things which don't exist in this world and which exist only in your dreams and fantasies(Like Gujarathi terrorism, Hindu terrorism, Narendra modi as Hitler). What will happen if Modi becomes hitler or Buddadeb becomes Hitler need not be answered today. If Hinduism has not produced any mass murdering kings (to protect its identify) like other cultures then it cannot produce hitlers.

    Please give due weightage for real and live issues which affect our day today life.

    You are doing root cause analysis for other forms of terrorism by looking past. (See your Islam related articles) For riots by Hindus, you are extrapolating into future ..... Look both forms as it exist today.

    ReplyDelete
  2. "Terrorism of LTTE/Riots of Naxals are not happening to protect Hindu identity."

    Interestingly, there is a thesis among muslims that terrorism is not related or rooted in religion, but to political ends.

    I tend to think there is a lot of truth to that. Terrorism is not entirely a religious phenomenon. Religion happens to be a catalyst actually. Taking away the catalyst will not eradicate terrorism. It will only slow it down.

    ~ Vinod

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  3. If educated Indians are good at something, I began to believe, it is sophistry. Playing with words!

    You are one of those educated Indians. "Playing with words!" summarizes this Blog really well.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Sujai

    I thought this may add perspective to what is happening in Pakistan after Bhutto's death.

    http://koonjblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/28/the-pressure-cooker-of-potential/


    ~ Vinod

    ReplyDelete
  5. abhi:
    Please go back to my blogs and search for 'Hindu terrorism' or 'Hindu terrorists' and then get back to me.

    In the recent topics, I did not use this term.

    I keep talking about extremism (that would eventually lead to many undesired effects - including terrorism).

    ReplyDelete
  6. Entire discussion thread on "Hindu terrorism" started after you commented "All forms of terrorism Hindu/Islam is bad". If you feel Hindu terrorism does not exist,no issues.

    Vinod
    If people don't want to call spade as spade then they will say terrorism is nothing to do with religion and it is meant for political ends. Why there is a terrorism mainly in chechnya for political ends? Why there is a terrorism only in small region of south thailand?. Why there is a terrorism in only muslim majority state of India? How many terrorist organizations are there which comprises only Jewish, christian, Hindu or Buddhist members?. I am able to count with my fingers and it is the fraction of total terrrorist organizations. Why there is no separtist movements in Hindu majority areas like Bali, some parts of malaysia, Fiji, some areas of latin american countries?. However there are few exceptions like LTTE.

    But I think situation is changing. Common muslims have started opposing terrorism.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Abhi:
    Yes, I agree I said that.

    I try not to use that phrase but I guess I used it already.

    There may not be well-documented and well-agreed acts of Hindu terrorism, but there is Hindu extremism, which is slowly taking the shape of Hindu state-sponsored terrorism. Are we there yet? May not be. But do I believe we will be there? Yes, I do, if I extrapolate the present events and scenarios developing within India. Hence, my words of caution.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Sujai,

    I differ with your view about future possibilities. What happened in Gujarat is one time aberration. Communal riots receive national attention. So it is coming down in each decade. No. of riots in this decade is much lesser than last decade. Previously there used to be a backlash against muslims whenever there is a bomb blast. Whether any of the recent bomb blasts have created backlash against muslims? There was no attacks against muslims even when Akshardham temple in Gujarat was attacked. Media keeps talking about 2002 riots and create the impression that there are daily riots.

    Other small incidents are being exaggerated.... because we have so many secular(?) parties/media channels like IBN Live/Secular bloggers. For example, attacks on Orissa churches receive national attention. Every party in India is duty bound to condemn it.

    Multiple, Hindu temples were attacked in Tamilnadu in 2007. Hindu munnani, BJP offices were attacked. It has not received even local attention. No condemnation by political parties. No blogging by Sujai/Krish. etc etc.

    Communal incidents have not increased but there is a multi-fold increase in coverage about the communal incidents against non-hindus.

    Whether you agree or not I will say culture of Hinduism is also one of the reason.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Abhi:

    I differ with your view about future possibilities. What happened in Gujarat is one time aberration.

    We both have different views on this topic. What you see as an aberration I see as an early symptom of an institutional and cancerous ideology that has been growing for quite long. This ailment is currently exacerbating at a rapid pace through certain other seemingly innocuous actions and sentiments from the majority.

    Communal riots receive national attention. So it is coming down in each decade.

    You see it as a communal riot. I see it as a state-sponsored pogrom. Communal riots have been happening for quite long in this country even prior to our independence. But when it is sanctioned by the state, it only means we have legitimized our prejudices and violence.

    ReplyDelete
  10. "Why there is a terrorism mainly in chechnya for political ends? Why there is a terrorism only in small region of south thailand?. Why there is a terrorism in only muslim majority state of India? How many terrorist organizations are there which comprises only Jewish, christian, Hindu or Buddhist members?."

    Hi Abhi

    Each region - Southern Thailand, Kashmir and chechnya - have had different reasons for the state suppressing or marginalizing the muslims. I'm sure with some elementary googling you can find the answers. I'm a bit surprised you don't know the answer to the Kashmir prolem - the angelic indian army perpetrating their divine good ofcourse.

    Anyway, the first terrorism was by Christians - the IRA. Remember them? But strangely, nobody called it 'Christian terrorism'. Do you know why?

    ~ Vinod

    ReplyDelete
  11. Vinod: Each region - Southern Thailand, Kashmir and chechnya - have had different reasons for the state suppressing or marginalizing the muslims. I'm sure with some elementary googling you can find the answers.

    Wow. Now, we all need to google everytime an islamic suicide bomber kills innocent beings and find out "the suppressing and marginalizing reasons for terrorism". Nothing, nothing, nothing justifies terrorism. Please do not try to teach elementary terrorism reasons' googling to the poor victims' families. You really have all your senses closed.

    ReplyDelete
  12. An advanced Google lesson for Vinod - Please click here to see Google Trends (patterns) for islamic terrorism. Also, suppression and marginalizing is not unique to these regions, but terrorism is. Vinod, it would help you to get statisctics 101 instead of Google 101. Play around with combinations of some of these terms on Google trends and your hate for "angelic indians" might subside - http://www.google.com/trends.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anyway, the first terrorism was by Christians - the IRA. Remember them? But strangely, nobody called it 'Christian terrorism'. Do you know why?

    Vinod, probably because they didn't justify their terrorist acts because of a book ostensibly written by god, or for a world-wide Christian "Ummah"? Just a thought.
    -chirkut

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  14. "Please do not try to teach elementary terrorism reasons' googling to the poor victims' families. You really have all your senses closed"

    I reckon it suits your prejudices not to look beyond the superficial.

    ~ Vinod

    ReplyDelete
  15. I reckon it suits your prejudices not to look beyond the superficial.

    Vinod: If you want us to look beyond the superficial of terrorism then yeah we do not want to look beyond the ugly face of terrorism. If you want to justify the terrorism at all the places that you mentioned then we do not want to do that because absolutely no level of research justifies blowing up innocent people. It would help for you to look at your prejudices as well.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Sujai,

    I would advise that you don't waste your precious space on such characters. Any explanation will not go into their heads because, like the followers of Osama Bin Laden, these guys are also brainwashed. Just see the questions raised by one of the commenter in this post to understand their stupidity.

    While asking "Do you think any Hindu in this country is roaming with AK47 to protect his "Identity"", this guys seems to have forgotten that no muslim or christian also hold AK47 in their hands. People don't have gun here because guns are banned in India. Thatz why Hindutva dumbheads hold trishul and roam around.

    Such insanely stupid arguments talks about their lack of ability to even comprehend the reality. Don't even waste your time and precious space trying to educate such people. You can only take a horse to the pond. You cannot make it drink the water. Same is the case with characters in the blogosphere.

    ReplyDelete
  17. like the followers of Osama Bin Laden, these guys are also brainwashed.

    It certainly looks like that Krish. Look at Vinod who is trying to justify terrorism by giving "reasons". Beyond comprehension stupidity!

    You can only take a horse to the pond. You cannot make it drink the water.

    For donkeys, it is impossible to even bring them to the pond leave aside make them drink the water.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Krish,
    It seems you are not aware of Indian realities. You are thinking nobody is carrying AK47. Do you know Kashmir terrorists are carrying all types of guns. Guns are banned in most of the countries. But terrorists manage to get it. Hindus don't get it because they are not terrorists. How many Hindus in India are roaming with Trishuls. How many people have been hurt or injured or attacked by Trishul. Kirpan/Trishul are religious symbols. People don't use it to attack others.

    Thanks for awarding insane title to me. I suggest you to respect others and use soft words in your comments/blogs. Bad words or abusive languages are used by people who don't have substance and driven by anger or frustation.
    Insane people use abusive language. Sane people argue their cases politely.

    ReplyDelete

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