For a long time Indians did NOT have access to their own national flag. There were so many DON’Ts that people didn’t feel free to even wave their own flag. Even after Jindal’s efforts, the flag still remains a sacred symbol. Looking at the number of ‘Insult to National Honor’ cases these days, I feel it’s better to lock it up in some museum and restrict it to hoisting on government buildings. Anything you do can be considered sacrilegious.
Sania Mirza and Indian Flag
First, we don’t even know if those feet were close or far away from that flag. Because it is quite probable that the photographer thought it was a nice shot and hence framed them in the same picture, though apart.
Second, many cultures and societies in the world would not consider propping one’s feet up next to their flag to be an insult. Indians are one of the rarest breeds who have funny notions on how to use their feet. They think that touching someone with feet, showing your feet to someone, or even waving them around is a gross insult.
My books and my feet
I love my books. I am an ardent reader. I read everyday and I buy lots of books. And I hold onto them as if it’s my treasure. I take good care of them. You will see my books in their original condition even after many years though they may have been read many times. I love them and respect them for what they are – sou
At the same time, I move them around with my feet. If there is a book on the bed, I move it with my feet, nonchalantly, without feeling remorse or guilt.
However, it does not go very well with people around me. They always tell me that I am disrespecting my books. And I get this remark even from people who never read books. Their reading stopped when they graduated from college long ago. Yet, they make it a point to instruct me not to touch books with my feet.
It’s not that they care for the books or what is written in them. They never bother to know its contents or value the contents. Yet, they feel they can tell me what I can or cannot do with them. And my peeve is – ‘who are they to tell me how I should be taking care of my books?’
Books are sacred
For most Indians, books are sacred. What it means is these books will be prayed to, honored and put on the same pedestal where their gods stand. For many, books are incarnate of Goddess Saraswati. Some people believe this so strongly that it also means they are NOT going to question what is written in those books. They learn by rote the contents, to memorize them, to spew forth in one continuous incantation, verbatim. [You can also see why they remain idiots even after reading their books.]
Feet are impure
And also, for most Indians, feet are impure. If you touch something with your feet, you defile that thing. Many Indian habits come out of this belief. Touching one’s feet is showing your obeisance. To throw oneself at the others feet is to convey your subordination and sometimes extreme respect for the other. Many Indians get offended when you touch them with your feet or show your feet to them.
Many in
I like to use my feet
I find that using my feet gives me more than two limbs to move things around. I am completely comfortable using my feet for various purposes.
Many people find that objectionable, and some of them give me some silly ‘scientific’ explanations- that feet are unclean since you go around in the world, full of shit, waddling through the pile, with your feet. Hence, the impurity!
My feet are usually clean. I never go out of home without wearing shoes even when I go on a short errand. Many a times, I feel that my feet are cleaner than my hands. So, my response was, 'well, since I keep my feet clean, can I touch my books with my feet?' Even after this explanation these people would object to it. They cite more reasons why it should not be done- like, what kind of example I would set; like, certain things should always be sacred no matter what etc. No matter how you explain, the end result is – one should not touch books with feet. It’s a blind belief at the end of the day.
Feet are discussed in mythology too!
According to some Indian mythology, Brahmins came from head of Brahma, Kshatriyas from his torso, Vaishyas from thighs, Shudras from his feet, and untouchables from the soil below the feet. Even in this characterization it was clear why Shudras and Dalits were considered inferior- they have something to do with the feet!
Head is OK, hands are OK, torso is OK, even the penis is prayed to. The breasts of a goddess are prayed to. No mention of assholes, so I don’t know its status. But the feet are NOT OK. They are impure, disgusting, and filthy.
Therefore, Sania propping her feet next to Indian flag is akin to putting impure things next to a sacred thing. Therefore, it’s an insult. No arguments!
Most Indians ahow a gesture of prayer or forgiveness when they stamp someone'ss feet. I've never encountered this at home and found it weird too.
ReplyDeleteHowever my mother expressly forbade me from ever moving books with my legs because she thought that was an insult to Goddess Saraswathi and that I wouldn't do well in my studies if I stamped on books.
This had such a lasting effect on me(having practised it for twenty years) that even after I quit my belief in God I cannot bring myself to move books with my legs. I don't regret it either.
Most Indians feel they are 'respecting' books by not stamping them. There is nothing wrong in that as long as they are not forcing others to do the same. Every culture has its own quirks. Most of our ancestors walked barefooted and the idea of equating feet with dirt would have just passed down the generations.
People target Sania to sensationalize issues and to get their dirty 15 minutes of fame.
Sujai said:
This also means they are NOT going to question what is written in those books. They learn by rote the contents, to memorize them, to spew forth in one continuous incantation, verbatim. [You can also see why they become such idiots after reading their books.]
These are gross generalizations and I disagree with them.
I see a new god developing in indian psyche.
ReplyDeleteIn ancient India when people used to walk barefoot, it was probably wise not to use feet to anything, as they might have been dirty. But now as u say ur feet r cleaner than ur hands, i still feel its not necessary. Shoes lead to more spread of germs, because of all the sweat that u accumalate in ur feet.
ReplyDeleteCertain organs have certain functions, we dont use our feet to eat do we..
I do find it odd to my move things around with my feet. Using feet to move things arnd is an just an act of laziness. But just because u dont use ur feet to move books doesnt mean u try learn them by rote.. thats bullshit. u know that.
According to some Indian mythology, Brahmins came from head of Brahma, Kshatriyas from his torso, Vaishyas from thighs, Shudras from his feet, and untouchables from the soil below the feet. Even in this characterization it was clear why Shudras and Dalits were considered inferior- they have something to do with the feet!
ReplyDeleteSujai, what's the source? I'm familiar with the mythology of only four varnas originating from Brahma (or Purush). And a head or torso, no matter how sharp or strong, cannot get anywhere without legs. Are you bringing out the old and tired argument of the left where Hinduism is conflated with the current form of the varna system? I don't think any sane person will agree that the so-called caste system as it has been practiced over the past centuries and even today is a positive thing.
I love them (books) and respect them for what they are – source for information and entertainment.
Information? How about food for intellect? Someone else sharing his or her knowledge with us to make us a better person? It's not hard to try a little humility here.
Second, many cultures and societies in the world would not consider propping one’s feet up next to their flag to be an insult.
Different cultures and countries have different ways of showing respect and insult, and different ways of doing things. Are you proposing that the entire world become a monoculture transplanted from the West? While West has many positives that we Indians could learn from, I'm not so sure that blindly accepting Western way of doing things and replacing Indian culture with it is such a good idea.
I don’t feel guilty, ashamed, apologetic or embarrassed when I touch my near or dear things with my feet.
Near or dear things, or near or dear ones? Yes, Sujai, it's all about you. :)
I never go out of home without wearing shoes even when I go on a short errand. Many a times, I feel that my feet are cleaner than my hands.
Maybe you should start eating food with your feet too. That way, you can multi-task and type your rants..err posts while eating. ;)
So you would be fine if I placed my clean feet next to your plate of food while you were eating, right? I mean you wouldn't mind if I placed my hands next to your plate.
-Chirkut
You are quite a Macauley's child, Sujai. :)
ReplyDelete-Chirkut
PS> BTW the whole controversy with Sania - agree that it's overblown and unwarranted.
"Many in India will do some weird action if they happen to accidentally touch you with their feet. They blurt out a sorry or use their hands to show a sign of praying to ask for forgiveness."
ReplyDeleteIn most Western countries, people are apologetic to you if they accidentally brush against you even with their hands. I would consider someone ill-mannered if they didn't apologize after bumping into me or stepping on me. Therefore, I don't see anything wrong with this practice. I myself would do the same but with a simple "Sorry".
The controversy was blown out of proportion....The photo proves nothing.. no one can judge the distance between the 2 from the front...!!! people always find time to spare on trivial issues and making a mountain out of a mole!!
ReplyDeleteI Usually avoid using feet as a mode of moving the books....but then believing in certain custom is purely subjective!!!
Indians laws regarding respecting of Indian flag is quite conservative and strict compared to laws in US or U. K. Infact in U. K there is no such law regarding respecting of flag.
ReplyDeleteThere is no rationality regarding this feet issue. You can touch book by hand but not feet even though they are the parts of same body.
Even if you throw money, people condemn you by saying that you are insulting goddess laxmi. Now whts the logic behind that?
Even removin of shoes while goin inside a temple I find quite absurb
Even removin of shoes while goin inside a temple I find quite absurb (sic)
ReplyDeleteSatan:
You might find these comments worth reading then. :)
-Chirkut
Ledzius:
ReplyDeleteTo add to your example, when people in the West greet you with "How are you doing?" or "How are you?" they don't really want to know how you are doing - it's just a form of greeting and most people respond with fine/ok/well and move on. So there is a disconnect between what they say and what they mean. Does that imply I should stop using that phrase, or if someone greets me with "How are you?" should I sit down for the next 10 minutes and tell him/her all my feelings and how I'm really doing that day?
Should I stop saying 'namaskar' because I don't always feel like 'the spirit in me is bowing to the spirit in you' and it would be illogical/irrational of me to say it when I don't feel it? Besides, I don't think there is any scientific evidence that "spirit" exists.
Should I stop wishing "best of luck" to people because it is illogical and irrational - there's no such scientifically proven thing as luck, nor any proof that wishing someone luck actually brings them luck?
Certain social customs and phrases are there to serve a purpose and trying to analyze them logically will only take us so far. And why stop at just one custom (of not touching books with feet/pointing feet at people) - keep going and similarly scrutinize each and every custom and tradition. That would be the logical and rational thing to do.
-Chirkut
These are some excerpts from some of the commenters here.
ReplyDeleteCertain organs have certain functions, we dont use our feet to eat do we..
I do find it odd to my move things around with my feet. Using feet to move things arnd is an just an act of laziness.
And a head or torso, no matter how sharp or strong, cannot get anywhere without legs.
Maybe you should start eating food with your feet too.
I would consider someone ill-mannered if they didn't apologize after bumping into me or stepping on me. Therefore, I don't see anything wrong with this practice.
Should I stop saying 'namaskar' because I don't always feel like 'the spirit in me is bowing to the spirit in you' and it would be illogical/irrational of me to say it when I don't feel it?
The idea of this article is not to say why legs are good for walking and running and why hands are good for other dexterous jobs. The idea of this blog is not to talk about certain customs and their significance or its roots. The idea of this blog is not to talk about courtesies people extend to each other, when they meet them or bump into them, that create a civil society.
The idea of this blog is to dethrone some of those customs from a pedestal called sanctity.
May be, the legs are good for moving things or may be, hands are good for eating. That’s your personal comfort. I am not discussing what limb is better for what. You can do what you want to do – its your body.
However, it’s altogether a different thing to impose your idea of what is sacred and what is not onto someone else. Like, people telling me not to move my books around with my feet, or telling Sania not to prop up her legs around a Flag that might hovering around.
This article touches upon why certain customs are considered sacred; why certain parts of the body are seen in such negative light, where they are given a status lower than their purported dirtiness. Why waving legs or propping up legs is an insult and why flags are revered so much?
Nothing to do with courtesies, customs or dexterity of limbs.
Ledzius:
ReplyDeleteThere are two different things working here. One is extending courtesies – which you talked about, saying ‘sorry’ when you bump into someone. The other is assigning tags of sanctities and sins to parts of the body.
When I stand in airports, people are always touching each other, and there is no concept of personal space. Each time I move forward so that I am not touching the other person, he lunges forward to occupy that space and thus I end up in the same situation. However, if the legs were to touch he would look at the whole thing quite differently.
In your example of extending courtesies, you would say ‘sorry’ even if you were to bump into the other with a hand or a leg or a head. What I am talking about is treating different parts of the body differently with no notion of courtesies at all, but solely based in ‘sanctities’ and ‘sins’. Where it is more important to feel better in your own eyes that you have not done the wrong thing, and nothing to do with how the other person feels.
I come here from Michelle's Blog, and I find this post to be very informative.
ReplyDeleteI had heard about how Indians felt about the feet, but never had it been explained in such graphic details. As for me and my feet, I consider them to be precious and could not do anything without them, therefore I worship them. They are a God to me, as they hold me up and carry me every place I need to go without being asked. I know this is corny, but it's true.
Thank you for this most interesting post.
My take: KEEP YOUR LIKES AND DISLIKES TO YOURSELF, DON'T IMPOSE IT ON OTHERS
ReplyDelete1. I do agree with you Sujai, that whatever I may feel about some quirk, habit or body actions of someone else, I really should not PREACH, CORRECT or COMPLAIN unless they are causing direct physical discomfort to me (eg. bumping into me, spit falling close to me or on my body, shouting loudly in my ear etc.).
I really don't care how people use their feet, or for that matter any other organ, unless they bother me physically. I tend to agree with the concept of PERSONAL SPACE around my body. If you don't violate that space, you are free to do whatever you want around me- eat, drink, vomit, dance, have sex, run naked, fight.. I don't impose my personal ideas, standards and feelings about manners, aesthetics and conduct on others, unless they personally ask me for advice. I have learned to tolerate visual distractions.
2. The Sania Mirza episode - besides the fact that the picture has "parallax" error (remember Class XI Physics)- I think it has two aspects -
a. Male chauvinism: Many Indian chauvinistic men cannot tolerate the success of a GIRL. Hence, they try to criticize her and bring her down as much as possible whenever they get a chance.
b. Thirst for 15 minutes of fame: If I attack a superstar icon, given the media craze these days, I will get my fifteen minutes of national/international fame.
3. Since early childhood, we are hammered with the concept of manners, etiquette, conduct, posture etc. We are told this is good, and that is bad; this makes you look like a gentleman/lady, that makes you look like a uncouth barbarian. We tend not only to judge people around us by these standards, we sometimes take these as unwritten law, to be imposed on everybody, and stupidly allow the violation of these laws by someone to cause us great mental discomfort :-).
Interestingly, different cultures and regions of the world have different standards and etiquette. It's impossible to set a uniform code of conduct for all ladies and gentlemen from all parts of the world.
Follow your standards yourself, and as I repeat for the umpteenth time, do not impose them on others!!
The idea of this blog is to dethrone some of those customs from a pedestal called sanctity.
ReplyDeleteBut isn't that the same as imposing your view on others - the same act that you're criticizing? If others view something as sacred which is harmless and you don't, then dethroning that custom is tantamount to imposing your view. Unless by dethroning, you mean that you personally won't follow it because you disagree with it. Which is fine.
I agree with what Ayan Roy said in his/her comment - first sentence.
Oh, and here's some material for future posts - right up your alley:
cows
Jodhaa-Akbar
:) :)
-Chirkut
I am not discussing what limb is better for what.
ReplyDeleteI like it how you said "limb" ;-)
I am completely comfortable using my feet for various purposes.
The key here is "various purposes" ;-)
Good post Sujai.
ReplyDeleteCO
Although I too feel nothing sacred or otherwise about teaching things with the feet, I feel no need to dethrone this custom practiced by others. However, I can quite well understand why you would want to when such 'subjective notions' (as our dear Chirkut puts it) are abused by indivduals and the media to malign the character of public personalities. However, i would still not agree with you in doing that. Instead, I would try to get people to see that there are cultures that do not share the same subjective notions of sanctity and individuals of that culture are entitled to practice their notions as much as Indians are to theirs.
ReplyDelete~ Vinod
"teaching things "
ReplyDeleteOops. type. Touching things.
~ Vinod
ayan roy, i think you have a highly mistaken view of this blog. sure, the picture has parallax error, but the point of the post is not to condemn her foot near the flag, rather, get the public to open up and not take things like it too seriously. secondly, i think you are very impaired, narrow understanding of the purpose of this post if you believe he is influenced by 'Male chauvinism' or 15 minutes of fame. and, just to point out, by telling him not to impose his ideas on other, you are imposing your idea on him.
ReplyDeleteThere is another strange custom in south India that I cannot come to terms with. This is when people insist that everything served on one's plate or banana leaf should be eaten, irrespective of whether the person is already full or not.
ReplyDeleteI have always envied those who are able to polish their plate (or leaf), literally speaking, so there is nothing left on it save for inedible stuff like dried chilies and the like. These people seem to be held in high esteem and give those around them who are unable to do so a kind of complex.
It is as though having even a few morsels left over on your plate is some kind of cardinal sin, even if you feel so stuffed that you feel throwing up at that point.
@anonymous.. What the ****..????
ReplyDeleteEither my grammar is really pathetic or sir/madam, you did not read my post well. :-)
you say, "...purpose of this post if you believe HE is influenced by 'Male chauvinism' or 15 minutes of fame. and, just to point out, by telling him not to impose his ideas on other, you are imposing your idea on him."
Oh gosh, who is he? Do you think I was referring to Sujai? Goodness, I was referring to the VERY PUBLIC who criticized Sania Mirza. Please clear these facts and then form your opinions. And stating my idea, opinion or belief does not mean that I am imposing it on anybody. I just say it, plain and simple.
Beyond that, you can hold whatever opinion you have about me or anybody else.
You might be interested in this
ReplyDelete--Arun
Ledzius:
ReplyDeleteHere are my thoughts on the custom you mention. It could be a way to make people more aware of their appetites and only have as much food on their plates as they can eat to minimize waste. As someone who has taken up gardening recently, I've developed a new appreciation for the time+effort that goes into producing food, which most of us are unaware of. Now, I do my best to avoid wasting food because I know first-hand what's involved in getting it to my plate, and if I had kids, I'd make sure to instill the same thinking of "finish what's on your plate" in them too, along with the reason behind it, instead of saying "because I said so" or "because that's how it has been."
When the reason behind a certain custom is lost, or people start following a custom blindly and unthinkingly, or ridicule people for not following a custom, then we run into problems like you mention, or what Sujai mentioned re: feet. As far as I'm concerned, there must've been some valid reason(s) for such customs to originate (people were not stupid) and customs do get corrupted with time, or can be misused.
I prefer the approach of first trying to figure out the reasons and evaluate whether those reasons are still valid (and the custom practical) or not in today's world, instead of simply saying all customs are stupid and unnecessary (don't mean to imply that you said that). Some, like refusing entry to dalits/lower caste people in temples are obviously discriminating and we need to challenge and get rid of such customs, as basic human rights are above any and all customs and traditions. I personally am not in favor of blindly opposing or accepting everything on the basis of an ideology (both the Hindutva and the left tend to make that mistake) and like to examine each issue on its own merit.
-Chirkut
Ledzius, I think the key point of your comment was the insistence on following the custom regardless of the circumstances (full belly or not). I think you will agree that the issue really is flexibly and reasonably applying the custom and not applying it with rigidity and thoughtlessness
ReplyDelete~ Vinod
Untouchability and foot fetishism - two of your pet peeves against the upper castes of the vedic age might have a very reasonable thread running through it - hygiene.
ReplyDeleteThese people had no idea what germs were, and it wasn't until the late 18'th century that humanity figured out how germs spread - but culture had already drawn a bunch of rules that worked - Muslims have their thing with washing their feet and hands and head too. These are defense mechanisms derived from successful cultural instincts.
These ideas are no longer relevant now, but these ideas served a purpose back then:
Read this article will ya?.
"One of the grimmest aspects of the mite is that it does best in crowded, dirty, unsanitary situations. So the poor, refugees, prisoners and other sufferers are the favorite victims of the mite, as if Nature wanted to emphasize the fact that it likes to pile misery on pain.
Until the development of modern pesticides, there was no effective treatment for scabies at all. Just let your mind roam over that little fact for a moment. No treatment at all. Either you kill yourself or prepare to endure 30, 40, or 50 years of the most intense itching known -- and remember, itching is actually harder to bear than pain."
I think more than Sania, the green leaves in the picture are showing the maximum disrespect to the flag, by pointing their edges, as if to attack the flag.
ReplyDeleteThey need to be imprisoned if not sliced up for the next kurma.
Good comment by Chirkut Feb24, 4.02AM.
ReplyDeleteI pretty much do the same but extend lazily to when the custom is harmless, doesnt particularly hurt or offend or discriminate, I tend to follow it without any much analysis.
When I follow such a custom, I actually feel I am keeping alive a marker of identity from times past, something that links me to my ancestors and is very "we" as in very non-other. I consider this a valid reason to keep following that custom.
I do subscribe to the feet thingy though not for objects. I dont point the soles of my feet at people. I think every Indian, Dalit or untouchable, senses insult there. Dalits maybe even more so since the landlords and master class may have traditionally sat that way pointing feet at them.
Re . feet vs hands.
We maybe more OK with hand contact since we do use hands to touch each other but there is no social situation where we touch each other with feet.
Re. case:
Silly beyond extreme.
Non-compliance with social customs earns nothing more than a slight bad rep. among that group and at max a small boycott. Not legal entanglement. In fact there should be legal protections for non-compliers.
Certainly taken too far and harmed Sania.
Lastly:
These are my rules vis-a- vis customs and nobody is obliged to follow them. Sujai obviously has different criteria whereby he questions the 'sanctity' and 'sin' origins.
Its always good to have beliefs questioned and so I welcome this, even though I dont seem to see Sujai questioning his stands at any point.
Thanks,
Jai
I pretty much do the same but extend lazily to when the custom is harmless, doesnt particularly hurt or offend or discriminate, I tend to follow it without any much analysis.
ReplyDeleteJai, well said.
These are my rules vis-a- vis customs and nobody is obliged to follow them. Sujai obviously has different criteria whereby he questions the 'sanctity' and 'sin' origins.
Agreed, that no one should be forced to follow customs, and there should be an encouragement for people to examine and come to their own decision.
-Chirkut
We have upgraded from books. Recently i saw a friend praying to the laptop as her feet touched to it. Somehow it is not applied to mobile phones :)
ReplyDeleteNo cultured person from any country deliberately makes contact with books using their feet. Try going to a library and put your feet up and move a pile of books and see the reaction from your peers. It has nothing to do with culture, religion or ethnicity. Books and all other sources of knowledge around you including digital interfaces are a part of the organically growing knowledge system in the world that has made us who we are. It's like kicking yourself in the face.
ReplyDeleteSujai - let me ask you a question - assuming that you are a hindu -
ReplyDelete"Do you go to the temple without a bath" ? In case you don't, please don't hesitate - because God doesn't identify or retaliate if you do so.
----
Your logic is terrible .. Please don't spread such thoughts if you are a responsible human. You would unknowingly corrupt many young minds who read your blog. I accidentally stumbled upon it today and regret.